Branding Matters

Laura Quinn - Start With Sustainability

October 29, 2021 Branding Badass Season 2 Episode 8
Branding Matters
Laura Quinn - Start With Sustainability
Show Notes Transcript

My guest today is Laura Quinn, Senior Director and Private Sector Lead at Purpose - a social impact and movement-building agency, where she leads client relationships with Danone North America, Uber, ViacomCBS, Bloomberg Philanthropies and others.

Laura's16 year career spans corporate purpose, sustainability, CSR and brand building across Europe, Asia and the US. She brings international perspective to reimagining the ways organizations can be a force for good in the world.

I invited Laura to be a guest on my show to talk about purposeful brands. I wanted to learn why more businesses need to start thinking wrong. And I was curious to get her POV on how brands can balance their profit with their impact on society and the environment.

Joelly Goodson :

Hi, I'm Joelly your Branding Badass, and welcome to season two of Branding Matters. My guest today is Laura Quinn, Senior Director and private sector lead at Purpose - a social impact and movement building agency, where she leads client relationships with such big brands as Danon North America, Uber, Viacom, CBSBloomberg Philanthropies and many, many more.Her 16 year career spans corporate purpose, sustainability, CSR and brand building across Europe, Asia and the United States. She brings international perspective to reimagining the ways organizations can be a force for good in the world. I invited large big guests on my show to talk about purposeful brands. I wanted to learn why more businesses need to start thinking wrong. And I was curious to get her point of view on how brands can balance their profit with their impact on society and the environment. Laura, welcome to branding matters.

Laura Quinn:

Thank you Joelly, thank you for having me. I really appreciate the invitation. Very excited to have a chat.

Joelly Goodson :

I'm really excited to have you here too. And I just want to share our story, because I think it's kind of interesting how we met I was reading an article about branding, and especially about brand purpose. And I read your article, and I found it just so interesting. And I had to reach out to you and have you on. So I'm really happy that you reply to a total stranger online and then agreed to be on my podcast. So thank you for being here means a lot

Laura Quinn:

Of course, and I'm in New York City right now. And I don't know if you can hear the sirens outside, but the soundtrack to the city is going on. So if you get some of that.

Joelly Goodson :

Oh, that's okay, problem. So Laura, I've heard you say you love getting things wrong, going in the wrong direction, finding wrong solutions, and even being told you're wrong, which I personally hate being told I'm wrong. So I'm curious to know, why is that?

Laura Quinn:

Yeah, good question. I started talking about this in a talk I'd have years ago, and I still talk about now it's a really good question. I've been working in kind of corporate purpose, sustainability, CSR, various bits of advocacy and brand work and all these different spaces for a while now. And one of the things that's very consistent in the work that I do is that it often takes a real leap of faith to kind of move in a new direction, right? And we're facing of some really big problems in the world. Climate inequality, poverty, democracy, public health, and doing what we as a society have been doing for years isn't accelerating the change as fast as we need it to right or we wouldn't be in the place that we are now. So when I think about kind of getting things wrong, it's kind of looking at a problem and going well, what have we done so far? And how do we think really differently? And of course, we want to actually get it right in the end. But what I find when I talk to companies is that the first instinct is often like, oh, that can't work. Oh, no, that's going to ruffle too many feathers. Oh, no, that doesn't sound right. No, no, you can't be right. And actually, as we start thinking about things, we start to really realize my clients and brands and partners really start to realize like actually, it does take us to step out of the box and do something that we are going to potentially be called out for, we are going to be potentially kind of criticized for and it might ruffle the feathers of our stakeholders. And I kind of feel like if we go into a room and suggest something, everyone goes, Oh, yeah, that's great. Good idea. We're probably not trying hard enough. So I kind of want a reaction in a room where people are like, really are you are you sure. And actually, I was on a call this morning, the fantastic Canadian company, and we were having this exact debate, they are very progressive, and they get it but they were like, Oh my God, this, you know, it's a kind of counterintuitive position on a big social issue. And they're kind of going some of our suppliers are going to hate this, like this is going to cause a lot of problems. But at the same time, knowing that if we don't do this, we're not really tackling the root problem that's in our industry. And that's where we have to be. So it's really kind of taking those steps that feel maybe counterintuitive, feel a bit wrong at first, but actually they're the steps that are going to get us in the right direction in the long term. And that's the space I kind of like to work in.

Joelly Goodson :

That's a great way to make a point and also to stand up for what you believe in a way that maybe you're gonna eventually get people to change their mind and change not only change your mind, but change your behavior and you've put a bit comfortable being challenge.

Laura Quinn:

You know, we hear a lot of brand purpose and it's a bit of a like buzzword, whatever. But it's like if you really do have a purpose, and you really believe in it. You can't decide when you do and don't stand for it. And if someone criticizes it, you can't suddenly be like, Oh, yeah, actually, we don't really believe that. You've got to be ready to take it on the chin. And I think that's just a really important lesson to learn in this space.

Joelly Goodson :

Oh, I totally agree with you. Before we continue. I do want to point out something though. You said you're in New York, but that is not a New York accent.

Laura Quinn:

So I'm originally from Manchester in the UK by London eight years in Delhi and the last two and a bit years in New York so my accent I had some might be wavering a little bit

Joelly Goodson :

No it definitely sounds like a UK accent and people like she's in New York that doesn't sound like your accent. So before we go on, I want to dig a little bit deeper into purpose because I've talked to a lot of people want purpose and ask them you know what their brand purposes and I get a lot of different answers and I wonder if sometimes people really don't understand what it means to be purposeful to have a brand purpose, can you just share a little bit about the definition of what that means your definition? It's such an interesting one because it has become a bit of a cliche, right, I work for a company called purpose, we are all into this. But like it's a real challenge. When I think about brand purpose, it's really about finding it's not inviting, it's uncovering that reason that you exist in the world. And I think we've reached a point in the world of business where there is a kind of general understanding that only being there to great profit isn't in the best interest of all of your stakeholders. And there's a lot of theses around this of shared value and other things. So the purpose I think, is really a kind of North Star for the business of not necessarily just kind of what's the big social issue that we're gonna stand for, but really like what is it that you're bringing to society? And yes, of course, you're going to make money. And of course, you're going to make money for your shareholders. And of course, you're gonna employ people. But is there something bigger? And what is it that you can stand for as a North Star that helps your decision making process, and that takes different forms for different businesses. And it's really interesting to see how legacy businesses that were founded potentially centuries before, you know, any of this thinking kind of really came in versus a lot of the startups and smaller and younger businesses that we're seeing who sort of hold this really core to who they are. I think it means different things to different people. But really, what's that thing that you can kind of all stand behind, and you know that everyone in your organization is there to achieve a certain goal that goes beyond just selling the product or making profit? Thank you for clearing that up. Because like I said, I wonder sometimes with a lot of people really understand what that means. So I think you did a very good job of explaining that. So let's go back to getting things wrong. Tell me about a time when you were told that you were wrong. And then what happened next?

Laura Quinn:

Great question. Love this question. I mean, I mentioned very briefly just now that I spent eight years in Delhi, and that was an amazing period. And during that time in Delhi, which is shockingly, about 10 years ago, now, I founded my own consulting business in India, in Delhi, after I've been there a few years, I figured this was a gap in the market around this kind of issue of CSR. And particularly kind of at that time in India, there was a new regulation that was about to come into effect that would push companies or force companies actually of a certain size to donate to a certain amount of their profit to CSR initiatives, very latent space, not really very clear, not a particularly popular policy in some ways. And at that time, I think even that move of starting that company in that sector in that country at that time of kind of going yeah, I think there's I think this is going to be big. And I think there's a role for CSR strategy and consulting in India, even that at the time a lot of people like that's crazy. And I guess like piece of work that I'm proudest of and felt most counterintuitive for a long time was a company I started working with at that time, and I've been working with I worked with them for about seven years. And now even I'm very close contact with them, which was actually an apparel manufacturing company in India called Shahi. So if you imagine what a clothing factory looks like, right, the you know, the traditional images of sweatshops, clearly they're not a sweatshop I wouldn't have been working with them. But these big factories, they're in 70, factories across India, I met with the head of organizational development. They're a very, very fascinating, brilliant man called anantha, who Jeff and I just knew that he was going to be someone who could create change in that sector. And the kind of wrongness there, I guess, was like, we think that regressive ideas come from the kind of more consumer facing businesses from the front end of industries from retailers, and there are lots of fashion retailers who are doing great things. But we don't really think that through the supply chain, that innovation and progressive ideas come all the way through the supply chain. And we especially don't often I think we have a problem, you know, in the US and in Europe to think that do not really look to other countries and other thought processes for where innovation comes from. And over seven years with jahi. They have just been a spectacular case study for change, I think, and I'm a real believer that you need that ecosystem. You need everyone not just in the supply chain, but you need advocacy organizations, governments, financial institutions, consumers, businesses, every across the entire chain, all kind of thinking about these issues together. And at this point in time, they're spectacular. They're just this bunch of factories in India and they are kind of close to 100% renewable energy, their pioneering closed loop manufacturing models, their blockchain based traceability so you can trace the cotton from the farm all the way to the shelf at gap or whichever retailer is in the US. There are a case study for researchers who are kind of looking at workplace into pensions, they speak on global stages about how factories can become safe spaces for women, because most of their employees are women. And they funded a research lab that is an independent research lab that just looks at how better worker welfare can create better business outcomes for lots of different companies, factories and manufacturing organizations around the world. So I just kind of go, there's always this barrier you're going to face where people go, that's not going to work. Factories aren't where the innovation is, right? They need to be dragged along. And it's like, actually, no, you're not always. And I really am really proud of the work we did there in kind of showing the world that actually, it wasn't a bad idea to invest seven years working with a company like that, because the amount of impact that they're able to create is actually spectacular. So to me, it was kind of like a, you know, a risk to work with a manufacturing business that had a lot of problems, and put that on our roster, consulting business, because we want to, you know, we have a reputation, but you've got to take risks, and you've got to put belief in people. And often that pays off if you work hard enough. And I think in that case, it really did.

Joelly Goodson :

That's a great story. I love that. And I love what they're doing and how you've helped them. There's a famous Milton Friedman quote, "There is only one social responsibility of business, and that is to increase its profits." I want to know what's your take on that quote? Yeah, the classic Milton Friedman was a very famous economist, and he said this, I think, around 1970, in a very famous article, and it's really become a kind of rallying cry for both sides of this argument, I guess, right? It's definitely the rallying cry for shareholder primacy, I guess, and prioritizing profit. And it's also the rallying cry for the opposite. So no surprise is probably not quite of that opinion, is interesting to look at the world, right? You know, this was in 1970. Look at what's changed since then look at the technology, the abilities that we have now to see what's happening in the world, to transform the world and to rally people as a power to change the world as well. And I think this isn't to criticize that thinking at the time. But I think we've moved on pretty fast since then, I had the pleasure, actually, last week of speaking to mark Kramer, who is the co author of a very, very important piece of work that I think was probably published about 10 years ago now called Creating Shared Value. And I actually think it's really kind of like the counter piece to the Milton Friedman point of view. And the shared value thesis really is based around creating value for all stakeholders, then if every stakeholder in your businesses getting value from what you're doing, then that's actually the ultimate kind of success of a business and the ultimate sustainability of a business not just for environmentally, but that's what's going to enable you to kind of continue to grow. And of course, one of those stakeholders is shareholders, right? We all know businesses can't operate if they're not all nonprofits, right? I mean, the reality is people are in business to make a living, to live

Laura Quinn:

Exactly. And no one's trying to say like, get rid of the businesses and you don't want to make profits to help shareholders are really important stakeholder. Thankfully, the way that progressive business leaders are really moving now. And honestly, moderate business leaders at this point, is really the if your employees, your local community, your customers, your consumers, depending how you look at your model, and of course, society at large, also benefiting from your business, then you don't really have a business. And that's really starting to become a fundamental way of thinking about business. Paul Polman, who was the CEO at Unilever and created the Unilever sustainable living plan was really a huge proponent of this and really reoriented Unilever's entire business around thinking about a much broader sense of stakeholder value and sustainability. And Unilever is doing quite well. I mean, they've not they've not suffered, in fact, I have his book here net positive, which I confess I haven't read yet. But I will. And I think this is kind of the argument that we're seeing now. And you know, the ultimate example always in this space is Patagonia, the outdoor power brand, we all know Patagonia. But I think they have really embodied these principles. And you know, when you think about what consumers are getting from the business, of course, they're getting really high quality products. And the fact that they've brought in a real sense of sustainability, those products are designed to last and to be fixed. So as a consumer, you're getting better value because you're not constantly having to replace stuff. So the sustainability and the consumer value is all kind of wrapped up into one. And they also offer their consumers much more than that, because you can engage with Patagonia's activism campaigns, you can volunteer through their online volunteer portal that they have, you know, you can become part of a community so they're not just like selling your product, and then you buy another product that building much greater value for society. We've seen all the campaigning that they do, and again, not to say Patagonia is perfect, there's definitely been some issues that they themselves have tackled around equity, but really taking a strong stance on big public issues, public lands and engaging in a fight for bigger societal gains. And you kind of scale that up with their employees. They're very progressive kind of employee policies and not just the wages which are the traditional transaction of an employer but things that lots of The benefits that they give to employees like days off to vote and stuff. So you start to build this world where you're looking at it through the environmental value, that you're creating the societal value, creating the value you create for your employees and you consumers. And then out of that should, if you're doing it, well come the shareholder value. And I think that's where this kind of new way of thinking comes from. And Patagonia is also a great example because they are delivering their businesses growing, and but I think it got one of its biggest leaps in growth, when it published, you've probably seen the famous ad, don't buy this jacket.

Joelly Goodson :

I was judt going to talk to you about that. Actually, if there's someone out there who doesn't know that campaign, can you share, because I think that's brilliant.

Laura Quinn:

Yeah, I will try not to misrepresent a scam. I'm not sure. I mean, there was this famous ad, right, I think it was around Black Friday, if I'm not mistaken, but just had their jacket had a Patagonia jacket on it. And the headline was, don't buy this jacket. And the message was actually only buy this jacket if you really, really need it. And if you don't, don't buy it, or get your old one fix now, actually resulted in a massive sales uplift for Patagonia. And I think it comes back to the like thinking wrong again, right? Like there's no logic by which you tell your consumer straight up not to buy your products. But of course, we all know it's much more nuanced and sophisticated than that. And that having a strong stance on overconsumption is actually a really smart way to make people understand that your products are built to last and deliver quality and also justify, you know, it's not cheap to buy Patagonia jacket, justifying that price point as well. There's actually a very clever and sophisticated technique, but really showing how the entire value structure comes together.

Joelly Goodson :

You know, I love that campaign, it was an ad with a huge headline, don't buy this jacket. Right? So I mean, as far as from a marketing perspective, talk about drawing you in, and I sell corporate apparel. And this is a great example of where people will pay that money. Because they know like you said, what it's going to write the money is not just going to cheap child labor in India, one of the third world countries, but it's actually going for these different reasons and what we're doing, and so they have no problem. And I think that's a really great point about branding in general in the sense that what's the difference between this cup of coffee, no name brand, and this cup of coffee? Well, the difference is the branding and the brand and what they stand behind, and more and more consumers. And you probably know this now more than ever, as more and more consumers, especially generation Z, are looking behind the curtain and want to know more about what your purpose is and what you're doing. And if it aligns with what they're believing, then they're willing to pay more for your brand than the other cheaper one because of everything that you're doing. What do you think about that? I'm curious.

Laura Quinn:

Yeah,absolutely. I mean, there's a lot of consumer studies now that are showing and as you say, particularly Gen Z are willing to pay more for products that either match their values in some way or are sustainable. Now, there's always a caveat with research, right, have claimed behavior and actual behavior. So we also know that that's not always exactly true. But I think it's moving as you said, in a really strong direction, where we are seeing brands are becoming more sophisticated at incorporating those values. And consumers are becoming more sophisticated, interpreting those values and making choices based on them, which kind of opens up loads of other interesting branding questions here right around claims and labeling and how confusing it is to try and buy something where you've got competing claims on a product. And I think that's going to be a really interesting frontier for brands over the next 10 years or sooner is to really figure out sustainable consumption. Great. We all know we want to do it. But I work in this space every day. And it's really hard to pick out which thing is more sustainable and less sustainable, because it depends what you're looking at. Then you've got like wages and labor rates, and is it better produced locally or not locally? And all of these different things in water and water usage, climate emissions? You just looking at going? I don't know. It's a real it's a real interesting conundrum for brands, I think going forward.

Joelly Goodson :

And you're talking about sustainable. I had someone say to me the other day, so what exactly does sustainable mean? Because I'm hearing a whole bunch of different definition. And again, it's the buzzwords that people are using, like you said purpose as one and sustainable as another.

Laura Quinn:

Yeah, what that means. And I think it's brands who can find really strong entry points for consumers and land on something that is clear, authentic credible, that are going to win in this space. And that takes some thought we generally sustainable it's not actually that helpful, and there's no definition of sustainable but what can you say that is useful and interesting and then taking credible that helps consumers make a proper choice about that and coming back to like the buzzword of purpose. I think one thing I probably didn't mention earlier but I think what is important thing about brand purpose as well is not just how are you doing that as a brand, but is there a way that you can improve the sector at large, whatever agreed guidelines, how can you challenge other people and connect with your industry peers, your competitors to be like, Hey, listen, we've got to sort this out. natural cosmetics doesn't mean anything. Why don't we all agree we're all the leaders in this space. Why don't we all agree on something, why don't we all cofund the standard, there's a lot of ways that brands can really Be active in that and get shared for shared value again with their competitors. And some of that feels like, Oh, we shouldn't be aligning with our competitors, because we need differentiation. But actually high tide lifts all boats. And if you're the five leading businesses in that sector, then you can create the ambition for everyone else to follow. I could talk about this all day, as you probably know,

Joelly Goodson :

Me, too. I love this. And I love community over competition, I always think that no matter who your competitors are, at the end of the day, you're all in it for the same reasons. And if you can work with each other, I mean, there's a zillion podcasts out there right now. I mean, I know that and I bring a lot of people on here who actually have podcasts because I want to support them. But also, I think we all have a different message. And we all bring something different to the table. And I hope that I bring something different by bringing people in like you and sharing about different things. I think there's enough room for everybody. And I think competition is healthy, because it just makes people up their game. But I also think there's that sense of community and help each other. You know, you mentioned some big brands, a lot of my listeners are small businesses, or entrepreneurs, or solopreneurs. Even. So what kind of tips or advice could you give them who maybe don't have those big budget? What can they do?

Laura Quinn:

Yeah, absolutely. I love working in small businesses, because they have kind of a clean slate, and I was doing a talk with a colleague of mine, or some female entrepreneurs and startup owners. And one of the things we observed was that it might feel like as a small business, you don't have a lot of power, you haven't got millions of consumers are looking to you for something. But actually, you really, really do. And I think the first step is to really think about where is your power to affect change, even if it's small? And I would say probably some of the things that you could definitely think about are what is it that you sell presuming it's a product or service, and start to interrogate what's in that product? Or how is that service being delivered? I think with products, there's definitely like physical components start looking at your supply chain, to start looking at are there more sustainable ways of doing this? Are there different types of companies we could source from that have their own social mission? That's an easy place to start. And with services, a good place to start is thinking about is the service that you're offering equitable? Are people able to use it in the same way? Is there any inherent bias in there? Now, these are kind of some tricky questions. As a small business, you have a lot of power and ownership over that. And I'd say that's a good place to start. And then the second thing I would really suggest is get out there into the ecosystem. It depends what your product and services, but speak to people, you know, none of us know the answer to this together. And none of us can solve problems together. So go out and ask your customers, ask your suppliers as your employees, where do you think we could be adding value? What could we be doing? Because the answer might be quite different. And you may not have thought a bit yourself. So I would say go and speak to people and ask them, What can we do to be more helpful? How could we be more equitable in the way that we approach things, I would definitely think about employment practices as well, I ran a small business. And I will say, as a startup owner, you know that you're on your own at first, and then there's one person in two and three, and six, and 10, or whatever. And one thing you don't think about from the beginning, necessarily is putting the policies and processes in place that you need to. And I think just being a little thoughtful about that, because once you start growing, you start realizing, oh, I don't have a policy for that we don't have HR policies. Now no one can afford to do all the things at once. But I think some thoughtfulness around that is always really helpful about what are your hiring practices? How are you like avoiding bias in your hiring practices that matters, whether you're hiring one person or 1000 people is equally important. So I think there's actually a lot of power that you hold as a small business. And obviously, then in your content in your communications, you can start talking about these things. But the key for me, and someone said this to me a while ago, and I can't remember who it was. So apologies if I'm quoting someone, but that company's now a glass box is not black boxes. So always I say to businesses, or think for businesses is big or small fix inside First, you have to be credible, and you have to be authentic, fix all the stuff, and then start talking about it. And if you fix all the stuff, it's easy to talk about it because it's true. Do you know what I mean? And your employees will talk about it too, and your customers will talk about it. So look inside and don't be afraid Don't think you can't do anything. You can't have a brand purpose because absolutely every business can.

Joelly Goodson :

That's such great advice. You know, it's funny when you said be a glass box and not a black box. I was thinking you're talking about transparency and how more brands are more transparent now than ever.

Laura Quinn:

They have to be transparency has a long way to go as well. But yeah, that's what it's all about. Because imagine the days before that. I am old enough to remember those days your we knew what you were told. And now we have everything is in the ether all the time and there's nowhere to hide for businesses, you know your employees. We've seen it, we just saw it with Facebook, your employees will call you out for stuff and there was enough public traction and you can't really hide anything these days or if you do a big resume coming out. So I think it is about it's definitely about transparency, but it's also about authenticity. Like you want to look purposeful on the outside. You've got to be purposeful on the inside. There's no shortcuts for that.

Joelly Goodson :

I agree absolutely totally so wow very passionate conversation to you I could go on and on not so before we go I know we mentioned Patagonia but I am curious to know what is or is Patagonia your favorite brand currently or do you have one and that you can share with us?

Laura Quinn:

Great question and this is like choosing between my favorite children isn't it? I'll answer this one more more professionally than personally but um there's a few brands that I just really love the spirit of I think you might may know this brand who gives a crap I don't oh look them up. They're an Australian brands and they're a toilet paper brand.

Joelly Goodson :

shocker.

Laura Quinn:

And their whole the what I love I love many things about them. What I really love is that they took an industry which is like it's toilet paper, how much innovation you know, the innovation to date has been how many quilted pockets or whatever you shot can it be like that's not an industry that's ripe for disruption and their entire proposition is basically about sustainable toilet paper for anyone who is fans of brand I really admire the way that they've built their brand around it they're really building a culture around what they believe in their sustainability obviously is high they give back to society is high and it's just really fun and I think you know, it doesn't have to be serious their packaging is beautiful like I pile it up in the bathroom because it looks so cute. And the tone of voice is brilliant so I just I think they've just like really nailed a space that's really cool just to name another few I'm a big fan of Airbnb and particularly their work around refugees and I think when you look under the bonnet we were talking about credibility with companies and speaking about what's true and I think when you with the bonnet of do we call it the North Americans that's what it's called a bonnet is that the bonnet of a car in the boot and I think you have the hood in the hood in the trunk.

Joelly Goodson :

The trunk Yeah, that's my country references but yeah, you run under the hood.

Laura Quinn:

Yeah. If you look under the hood of Airbnb, you know the work that they've done with refugees we've seen it we've seen what comes out publicly but there's a lot going on underneath that where they're working really hard in that space and I just really admire their approach and then what I was looking at a company the other day there's a fashion brand that I am a fan of called Gani. I may be pronouncing it wrong g a double and I think they're Scandinavian and what I was looking at the sustainability on their website as I always do, and it just said we are not a sustainable company and I was like oh and back to the you know wrong thinking I'll find my job no buy this jacket wasn't I read through it and it was like look we're a fashion company the most sustainable option is don't buy anything however we're doing all these different things and we're trying really hard I'm trying to be the best we can be but it's untruthful to say that we're a sustainable company because we're still producing fashion items and I just thought what a great yeah what a fresh and on like thoughtful take on it so I'm really I'm really into them at the moment as well

Joelly Goodson :

That's so great and I like what you said earlier about "Who Gives a Crap" I love that you said about the fun because I think that really just brings a bit of lightness to it that's not actually something to laugh about. But I like the way they take it and make it humorous and bring a bit of fun to it and I think you impact people more sometimes that way right?

Laura Quinn:

Yeah I agree. One of the things we talk about in our work is entry points and finding ways to bring people into conversations that they might not be that into and sustainable toilet paper is not the top of anyone's conversation list yet when you get this toilet paper in your hand it becomes fun and it's a talking point and you dive into it and it's got cool messages And to your point earlier it there's a price premium on it as well and it's not the cheapest But to your point you fall in love with it and you kind of just want it in your bathroom and you know where the money's going and you know

Joelly Goodson :

exactly I love that. Well Laura it's been just such a pleasure talking to you I've learned so much along the way you're so passionate about what you do which clearly you are so people want to learn more about you or connect with you I assume, are you on social media and how would the best way for them to get a hold of you?

Laura Quinn:

I mean social media good question. I am if I could remember any my hand No I am I think best way to get in touch with me is through LinkedIn you can look up Laura Quinn purpose you will find me You can also reach me through purpose.com the website you'll find me on there. And very happy always to take incoming thoughts and connections at Lauraquinn@purpose.com.

Joelly Goodson :

Well thank you again and thank you for replying to my email. We never would have connected and you know one of my favorite things about podcasting is I get to have these amazing conversations with people from all over the world that I probably never would have met or talked to. So thank you again. I really appreciate it.

Laura Quinn:

Thank you for the invitation. This was a great hour.

Joelly Goodson :

It was so fun. So we'll stay in touch?

Laura Quinn:

For sure. Okay. Yes.

Joelly Goodson :

All right. Bye . And there you have it. I hope you enjoyed the conversation and maybe learned a few things to help you with your branding. But most of all, I hope you had some fun. This show is a work in progress. So please remember to rate and review on whatever platform you listen to podcasts. And if you want to learn more about me and what I do to help my clients with their branding, feel free to reach out to me on any of the social channels under you guessed it, branding, branding matters was produced, edited and hosted by Joelly Goodson - also me. So thanks again and until next time, here's to all you Badasses out there.