Branding Matters

Heidi Browning - Get a Sneak Peak Behind the NHL

June 25, 2021 Branding Badass Season 1 Episode 30
Branding Matters
Heidi Browning - Get a Sneak Peak Behind the NHL
Show Notes Transcript

Today I’m sitting down with the Senior Executive Vice President & Chief Marketing Officer for the National Hockey League, better known as the NHL! Her name is Heidi Browning and she is a passionate pioneer in digital, mobile and social marketing.

Heidi is also a sought-after featured speaker at industry conferences, including CES, TEDx Women, Variety Entertainment Marketing Summit, Adweek and the Youth Marketing Summit, just to name a few. Her honours include Adweek’s Most Powerful Women in Sports, Most Powerful Women in Music by Billboard, and recently she was named one of Forbes’ World’s Most Influential CMOs in 2020!

I Invited Heidi to be a guest on my show to discuss generational trends in attention and brand engagement. I wanted to learn why marketing to Millennial and Gen Z audiences is essential for engaging young sports fans. And I was curious to get her POV on what it’s like to be a woman at the helm of a mostly-male dominated industry.

Joelly Goodson :

Hi I'm Joelly your Branding Badass, and welcome to my new podcast. Branding Matters. If you're a hockey fan, you are going to be so happy that you tuned in today, because I'm sitting down with the Senior Executive Vice President and Chief Marketing Officer for the National Hockey League, better known as the NHL. Her name is Heidi Browning and Heidi is a passionate pioneer in digital mobile and social marketing. And when you listen to this interview, you're gonna definitely see what I mean by passionate. Heidi is also a sought after featured speaker at industry conferences, including CES, TEDx, women, variety, entertainment marketing summit, Adweek and the youth marketing summit, just to name a few. Her honors include ad week's most powerful woman in sport, no surprise their most powerful woman in music by Billboard. And recently, Heidi was named one of Forbes his world's most influential CMOS in 2020. I invited Heidi to be a guest on my show today to discuss generational trends and attention and brand engagement. I wanted to learn why marketing to millennial and Gen Z audiences is so essential for engaging young sports fans today. And most of all, I was really curious to get Heidi's point of view on what it's like to be a woman at the helm of a mostly male dominated industry. Heidi, welcome to Branding Matters.

Heidi Browning Pearson:

Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. It's gonna be a fun conversation.

Joelly Goodson :

Oh, well, you don't know that. But it is. Thank you so much. Well, first of all, I just want to say congratulations on being named one of Forbes world's most influential CMOS and 2020. How exciting is that? Were you surprised?

Heidi Browning Pearson:

I was absolutely surprised. And it's such an incredible honor to be on a list with so many amazing global CMOS. And what I like the most about this is it's not an editorial staff choosing who is on this list. This was all algorithmically derived based on the data of our engagement and connection with the communities across social media. So that's where I thought it was really interesting, because I don't really set out with personal benchmarks or goals and what I do within the social media space, but that, you know, behind the scenes, they're looking at all these connection points and communication points and impact that you can make by using your channel. That's amazing. So how did you find out, I found out like everybody else did when I opened up twitter one day, and there was acknowledgment of it. And then you know, of course, we receive the note from Forbes and everything, but it's really, you know, quite quite special. So Oh, that's amazing.

Joelly Goodson :

No kidding. So do you know how many women are on that?

Heidi Browning Pearson:

Oh, you know, that's a really great question. I haven't gone back to look, but there were a big the number one person on the list was a woman and the top they there were several several women on that list. So it's really, which is no surprise for all of us who've been in digital media for a long time know that young girls and women have been really the driving force behind digital communities and conversation for decades. Yeah, absolutely. Well, that's great. Well, congrats again. So when did you start with the NHL, I started in 2016. So this is actually my fifth season here at the NHL. And what a great year to start, because that was a celebration of our century, 100 year anniversary of the league being in existence. So it was it was a bit overwhelming at first because not only was I new to sports and new to the league, but we had double the amount of events and activities going on to celebrate our centennial year. So it was an action packed year of you know, outdoor events and honors and special moments that I got the you know, unique opportunity to see the legends and icons of hockey be connected to the hot young talent in all these in the new talent that we have all of these special, you know, really moments of celebration and reflection. And what's really fun about it is like taking hockey is like such a sport that steeped in history and tradition. And how can we take the best of the history and tradition that we have, but bring it into the next century into the new year? And how do we make our brand and our you know, marketing and our messaging and our game relevant for the next 100 years. So that's a that's a gift that not many marketers get the opportunity to do and I've just feel so blessed been able to join the NHL to be on part of their journey.

Joelly Goodson :

What did you do before you started at the NHL,

Heidi Browning Pearson:

Well I've done a LOT of things before the NHL, but I'd say the bulk of my career has really been centered around digital. And I will never forget the day I fell in love with digital. And it was before really anybody was really doing it right? It was back when we were bartering based on website. So it was like, really early days before paid media and advertising. And all of that had come into play. And I was working for another company. And a friend of mine said, Hey, you really got to meet this guy. He's building a digital agency in San Francisco. And he's looking for new talent. So I was like, what you know, so I had lunch with him. And it was super interesting conversation. And we talked for about two hours about all things marketing, and digital and all that kind of stuff. And he said, you know, see, do you want a job? And I said, Wow, that's awesome. Of course, I'd love it. The problem is, I don't know anything about digital marketing. Yeah, PDF is so new. And he's like, that's okay. Nobody does, you know, marketing, you can make the transition into digital. And that was really the first person in my career that really gave me a chance like that to go into something that I knew nothing about, but to bring my history and experience in general marketing, and apply it to digital. And the more I got into digital and understood, like the power of one to one communication and connection, the power of the ability to track ROI on everything, I mean, that's always the marketers biggest challenge, right? Where do I invest my time and resources that's making an impact, and you have so much greater ability to measure impact and attribute, you know, results to the work that you're doing. That's when I fell in love with digital, because if you think about it, that was when everything changed in marketing forever. Right? At that point in time, people were just now being armed with cell phones and flip cameras were written with video cameras were really big in the in the day. So all of a sudden, you had this like creator market was starting to emerge, right? individual creators, I think we called it user generated content back in the day. And then you had platform for distribution, because you had MySpace, and you could distribute your content that you were creating as an individual to pretty sizable audiences of people who cared about it, because MySpace was one where you, unlike Facebook, where you have to know somebody and be accepted in order to see the content, MySpace, anybody could follow you, right? It was a very open network. And so for the first time, people had the power of creation, the power of distribution in their hands, they had a voice for the first time. And they expected to use that voice, the power of, you know, consumers, saying, you know, to brands, what they want, what they don't like giving feedback, and the need for brands to listen. And that was such an exciting point in time, because we were educating brands on it, people were really focused at that time on contextual relevance, and what we were talking about as your fans have a voice of your brand, and they expect you to listen and to act. And we also did a lot of research on what social media means to individuals, right about it being a place of social expression, and your social currency you get when you share and you connect with others and your first to know or first to inform others about information that you see the joy you get when you know people like or share your content. And so some of those principles still live today in social media, and they they become amplified, you know, in fact, created a whole new category of opportunity for people to make real careers as being content creators and influencers in their own world, you know, based on their own passion.

Joelly Goodson :

Well, speaking of passion, it's funny that you say that, because I'm listening. I'm like, holy cow, you are passionate about what you're doing. It's obvious, right? I mean, you can hear the wake comes out of you. So that is amazing, because it's great to be passionate about something that you'd love. I'm just curious, where did you go to university?

Heidi Browning Pearson:

I went to school at the University of Colorado in Boulder, which is okay, this stunningly beautiful and amazing campuses.

Joelly Goodson :

Is that where you're from?

Heidi Browning Pearson:

No, I'm from Montana originally. So yeah. And I didn't go to school in marketing. I went to school to become a lawyer. I was going to be an international lawyer. I studied international affairs and was, you know, studying to take my law school entrance exam, when I accidentally stumbled into marketing. At that moment in time, I was interning at Kaplan test prep, I was working off my test prep course. Because they were very expensive at the time. And it was like a beautiful Saturday, everybody, all my friends were outside having fun and I had to work you know, when you're in college, you feel sorry for yourself a lot. You know, I worked I worked out through university as well. So I had to go to work. But our office was right on a walking mall. And what I did was I said, Wow, I want to enjoy this beautiful day. It was like one of those, you know, first beautiful days. So I brought the table and chair out from the office and the phone had a cord. It was like so long ago, right over phones, of course, all the young people are missing going, like, what's a cord? And it's like, carrying, and carrying it all out. Yeah. What about the brochures out and then I just started talking to people about test prep courses, and I gathered more leads that day than they had ever gathered in a single moment, just from bringing the inside outdoors, right from bringing myself from the barrier of the window and the door to go into learn more to just being out there with the people. Right. And that just thing? Yeah, it was such a great experience. And and then I just started to think about Wow, if this is marketing and all this creativity is being a lawyer the right path for me, right. And you know, just because it's deep in my family doesn't mean it's like the right thing for me. And I found it interesting. But I found myself really passionate about marketing ideas and creativity. And so from there, that's where it all began.

Joelly Goodson :

Wow, well give for you for following your passion. You know, a lot of people when you said especially if it's in your family, they tend to feel this obligation to follow that path. But to say, you know what, I think I want to do this and then doing that. And obviously you're very good at it. You become very successful at it. So it was the right choice for you. So that's great. Okay, so let's talk about the NHL right now we're in the playoffs and being a being from Montreal. I have to say Yay, Habs

Heidi Browning Pearson:

You must be over the moon!!

Joelly Goodson :

Well, I'm pretty excited. It's funny. So I live in Calgary. Now I was born in Montreal. So you know, people are like, are you a flames fan? But my heart is in Montreal. So yes, deep down. I'm like, Yay, go Habs go. So it's pretty fun.

Heidi Browning Pearson:

You can have different teams at the same time. Like that's the that's the big miss out there. You can have lots of favorite players and team doesn't have to be market based anymore.

Joelly Goodson :

Exactly. Right. So it's been obviously a very tough world for everybody in business. Sports has been a huge challenge. It's just like every organization, you know, the NHL, you had to pivot. Right? So how did you make the best of COVID?

Heidi Browning Pearson:

I'll never forget that day when we put sports on pause around the world, right? It wasn't just our league, it was all leagues pause. At the same time, I believe it was March 12. The next week, the very next week, we gathered together and realized our only connection point to our fans was our social channels. Right? Our main connection to our fans were the social channels. And you know, we needed to be there for our fans for three reasons. Number one was just communication because we wanted to make sure that we were clearly communicating what we were thinking, what was going on as much as we knew and continue to inform our fans along the way we can make communicated around health and safety messaging, too, because that was so critical. Being leaders in sport to make sure everyone was really embracing all the you know, tactics that we needed to do to kind of beat this thing. The secondary was community and we focused on all the money we raised the food the PP the partners that we had to deliver into our communities, right, because this was a time when like, think about we had some great partners like Bauer, who makes the face shields, they immediately went into action and made face shields we have, you know, clubs that were delivering food to kids because sometimes kids they get in many places, the only meal they get is in school and once kids are out of school, they couldn't get their meals, we were delivering PP, we were delivering food to the frontline workers who couldn't get out couldn't get a break. So every club in our league was doing something unique and special. So we really wanted to highlight and show that community aspect and the role we play. And then the third part was that connection. And this is the part that was really remarkable, which is our players, each and every one we had 611 out of over a little over 700 active players posting on social media. And at this time, they were sharing everything from the messages around health and safety to you know, fun messages around, you know, what are they doing in their lives? What are they watching on Netflix, you know, how are they getting their workout? This was like an extraordinary look into the lives of our players that our fans have wanted for so long. And as you you know, our players are very team focused. It's all about the name on the front of the sweater, not the name on the back and social media isn't their first channel to go to like other athletes do and every time we talk with young fans, all they want to do is know more about our players. They want to know their personalities, they want to know their personal lives and this is a macro trend right like young people are following after have sports they don't even watch just because they're interesting humans. And there's this expectation because of social media, that they're going to have that one to one connection with the athletes, even though they know really, they're not having a one to one connection. They want to feel like they know the athletes, they want to understand, like, what do they eat? How do they work out? How do I become a goat like you, right? And so this was so wonderful, because our players really participated and shared so much of their lives and social media, during this period of time that gave our fans exactly what they needed during that moment.

Joelly Goodson :

So what you said earlier, and when you're saying that, that they don't go to social media, like other athletes, why is that?

Heidi Browning Pearson:

Well, you know, I think that there's a bit of a culture of team first, which is really important and special about pop about hockey, right? Everyone knows that, like, without team, you wouldn't have hockey, right? And I think that we need to find that balance of you can still be a participant on social media and be a team player on the ice, I don't know that everyone is been able to separate those two, in you know, those two concepts I lucky, like other sports have done right, you know, you see basketball, the players have huge platforms are out there as individuals, and I feel like, we want our players to be out there, they don't need to be as individualistic. You know, you can still be on social media, but be all about the team, all about your teammates all about what you're doing in the community. It doesn't have to be a self centered aspect of social media. It's about education, and and, you know, empowerment and ideation and kind of helping each of the players who want to participate, not everybody has to figure out where they're, you know, they're placed in their spaces, right? Because, again, that's what our fans want. And it's good for our athletes, like your social media following as an athlete is your currency, it's your currency for endorsements, it's your currency for your fandom. It's a currency, both while you're in a league, and when you you know, our post league. And so we really want our athletes to embrace and understand the value and the importance of this for their long term benefit.

Joelly Goodson :

And you know, the reality is, when it comes to marketing, especially branding, we talk a lot about connection. And you brought that up earlier as well like connecting with your audience, you know, whether they identify with you or they just look up to you, or they admire you, you know, and you become this hero to them. I think it's a great platform for that exact thing. I mean, versus being watching players as on a team playing on the ice, whether you're watching them on TV, or you're at the game, which brings you a little bit closer. But what a connection, will you see, you know, even if it's your favorite athlete seeing you know what he did? What did you eat for breakfast? Like people go crazy over that kind of stuff. So how does the NHL view engaging with their fans than today?

Heidi Browning Pearson:

Oh, my gosh, it's so it's so critical. So you've got the social media connection, all the content? And boy, that is something that's like an never ending process, right? Like creating content that every channels a little different? Who the audience is, what their mindset is, is it you know, are you scrolling through content? are you stopping and pausing and watching? Are you you know, just how do you create some stopping creative to make people turn their sound on? Like, there's so many aspects of it, whether you're talking about cool Tick Tock challenges, or Snapchat content series or Instagram?

Joelly Goodson :

Are you on Snapchat?

Heidi Browning Pearson:

Yes, I'm on all of the platform.

Joelly Goodson :

That's great. You need to talk to a viewer, not a participant, but as them I do participate in and just keeping up with trends, if that's part of the most fun part of our job. Yeah, absolutely. Because it challenges us to be creative. We're obsessed with sort of the data analytics behind it. So we look at what's the content that seems to pop, what do people engage with? What do they share? How much time are they spending, watching, one of the my favorite mantras, that has come out of all of these insights is that humans are greater than highlights. It's the human moments that matter the most to our fans. And those human moments can happen on the ice right off the bat. But you know, it's the ones that really go viral, or when the player pops the stick over the glass to the kid or the puck to the kid or they acknowledge the signs or take a selfie, like those moments are the ones that are most relatable for everybody, whether you're a hockey fan or not. And then the human moments off the ice are incredible. And so we've made a mission to try to tell more of these stories over the course of the, you know, last several years, and there's just so much more that we can do and want to do with our players. And so stay tuned. We'll continue to do that. Right? Well, and you can like you can see it starting to happen now, like we say with the fans in the stands. So you said going back to normal, do you think we are going to go back or do you think it's going to be a totally different scenario when COVID is hopefully over sooner rather than later.

Heidi Browning Pearson:

I think it's going to be a new normal for sure everyone's kind of talking about it in those terms. You know, it's been so amazing to have full or almost full buildings. Again, as each playoff game happens, it seems like more fans are allowed to go into the buildings and just the exhilaration you can feel like watching from the couch or being in the building like we I've been talking with some of my colleagues, I've actually been to games I haven't been to a game live yet with fans in it since the pandemic, and they just say it just like during the pandemic, I think we got used to not having guns and building then used to not having fans in the field or whatever sport you're watching the differences now that you have fans in you realize how important they are to the overall enjoyment of the sport. And so we're just so grateful to have him back. There's so enthused to be back and the players love it because they get so much feedback from the fans when they're playing. It's like you can you can just see it you can feel it you know,

Joelly Goodson :

Yeah, the energy right I mean, even they have the canned shouting you know your or if not shouting but the can cheering like you're watching the game on TV and you hear the cheering and they're back when there was no one in the stands. But the players don't hear that. Like it's probably sight you don't you don't realize that what you just said that I'm like, Oh, yeah, but they don't hear that cheering they probably just play in it's dead silence.

Heidi Browning Pearson:

Here's a fun story on that was when we did our first bubbles last year up in Canada and Edmonton and Toronto, we we did some pre games, I don't know if your call like to get the you know, the rest add to get everybody going. And we didn't pump in fan noise in those pre games. So the buildings were quiet, but could hear it on the broadcast. And we had some of the best sound engineers that were like coordinating the right sound for the right play. Which is an art form. And we realized that it was so quiet with the players a they could hear everything each other were doing and be they really needed that feedback. So we started to pump the sound into the buildings that made a huge difference for the players, that at least that's what they shared back with us. Because, you know, it felt like there were fans in the building. And I you know, when you're walking around in the building, you actually kind of felt like, there were fans in there. Right now, if we were to look at it after having real fans in the building, you might not feel that same way. But at the time coming out of COVID, or the first batch of the pandemic, that was really what it felt like. So now with the fans in there, you know, I'm sure yeah, players are just vibing off the energy.

Joelly Goodson :

I love that vibing off energy. And I did a webinar recently, and I don't if you've ever done a webinar, but you don't see anybody and you don't hear anybody, you just do your presentation. And I love to do live presentations, because I do exactly that I feed off my audience and you know, and you do something funny, and you don't know if they're laughing or what. So I can totally see how that would make a difference and probably helped with their performance too. Right? Because knowing that Yeah, no, that's great. I have I was gonna say one Gen Z, but I think I have to I have this I have a 17 year old and a 14 year old are they Gen Z? Yeah, there will be two boys to Gen Z. So you know, you mentioned earlier about tracking people and how much time they're online. Well, like way too much time. That's what I was saying. So how does the NHL compete? Or how do you bring millennials and the Gen Z audiences to become more fans? And do you find that you're competing with things like video games and cell phones, because I swear to God, I think they're attached to my kids hands.

Heidi Browning Pearson:

Our first mission is really to listen and understand what's important, what's relevant. And one of the programs that I'm most proud of, of my entire career really, is that NHL power players program. And this is a group of 13 to 17 year olds, who apply to become power players. And we they go through a rigorous interview process, an application process, we narrow it down, we have 25 power players, and they advise us on everything from media and technology, to sports, to the work that we're doing, etc. So you should tell your sons because we're open application right now. And we're just finishing our second season of it. We're and we're taking applications for the third season. It has been transformational for us for a number of reasons. The, you know, first of all, just understanding what's important to this generation is so critical. They give us honest feedback, which I so appreciate, you know, sometimes it's hard to hear, but you got to hear it in order to improve, right? And it's very inspirational for the kids, right? They get to learn about how what how does the NHL work and we get to meet a lot. I tried to bring in a lot of different people across the organization so they can meet and learn about different roles that they could potentially have someday. And you know, I hear from the kids and or their parents that this has been life changing for them. In fact, we just had a session this week and one of the power players said this has changed her life forever. Like my friends are tired of hearing me talk about it, but it's been so impactful. And so if we can, you know make an impact for the kids to make their lives better, they can make an impact for us to make our marketing That's just, you know, a recipe for success for everyone for longevity for all of us.

Joelly Goodson :

You know, I love that initiative, because instead of telling people what you want to tell them, you're telling them the knowledge based on what you've learned, and you're asking them what they want, and you're giving them what they're asking for, which is so great, right? I mean, talk about connecting with your audience. That's awesome. Okay. Well, Heidi, I know that you don't have a lot of time here. And I don't want to take up too much time. But I do have to ask you this question. Who is your favorite NHL team?

Heidi Browning Pearson:

We don't have a favorite team. We love all of our children. Let's just start there. You know, internally, equally, I didn't come from a hockey market where there was a team like growing up. So you know, a lot of the employees at NHL who love all our children have grown up, you know, with family tickets to hockey and you know, so they naturally have a connection and affinity for a team. So I came into hockey without having that growing up connection to a protein. So you watch hockey when you're young. The first game I ever saw a Paki was at the Olympics in Salt Lake City, like the first low national hockey game was that. So that was great. I was what you would say a bandwagon fan where I loved the Stanley Cup, but I loved it because that was I loved the celebration and everybody getting together and having fun. So I would study that but you know, never had season tickets growing up or anything like that. So or even a team anywhere near us, like the closest team where the ABS and the ABS didn't come into the market until after I you know, moved out of Montana, that flames probably would have been close to Great Falls Montana. So okay, do you have siblings? No, I mean, only tie Okay, cuz I was gonna say when I was younger, I have a brother. And we're three sisters. And it wasn't a democracy. He would come down every Saturday night at like, whatever time seven o'clock and to switch the channel back when you had to get up, you know, in turn, turn on the TV. And hockey was on like, there was no, you know, that was it. So I was just curious joy. Yeah, that love that most with our household is like now which. But yeah, I've been enjoying meeting all the different teams and going into their markets, and meeting their staff meeting their fans, that to me, and I have a favorite moment. In every building that I've been to, right. It's either, you know, people I've met there, it could be someone who's worked at the arena for 40 years, pushing the elevator buttons, who was just an absolute delightful person, right? Because there's so many of these little moments that I got to experience because of my role in the NHL. But then I also insist upon sitting and experiencing the games with the fans. And I met so many really interesting, cool, fun, amazing people, which only solidifies the passion for hockey. And the reason why we have the best fans and the reason why I want this game to grow so much. I want everyone to experience the love and the passion that our fans have every day. I want to spread the love. Right? Yeah. So that's your way of getting out events?

Joelly Goodson :

I totally get it. So have you met all the players?

Heidi Browning Pearson:

You meet a lot of the players, you know, I do when we have our moments of content capture. But you know, we try to let the players do what they do best. We try not to be distractions at all for them. You know, we'll have moments when we're working on something in the community or working on content together. And, and it's just so fun to you know, we do live q&a on Instagram and stuff. It's so fun. They're all so down to earth again. That's why I'm so passionate about getting the players out on social media because they're such they're so approachable. They're so humble. They're so down to earth. They're like real people are connected to you know, real life. And I just want people to get to know him a little better. Yeah, connect with them.

Joelly Goodson :

Well you're doing a phenomenal job. I mean, hockey is just, you know, such an iconic sport. And it's really a sense of community. And right now with the way things have been in the world, we need that sense of community, right? We need to all come together and feel like we have this in common. So kudos to you. And congrats again on your incredible award. And thank you for taking the time to come here today. I really appreciate it. So you're coming here through the computer through for fun.

Heidi Browning Pearson:

I have an idea for you for another pod too.

Joelly Goodson :

Oh, yeah?

Heidi Browning Pearson:

Yeah. Because my colleague, Brian Jennings is the chief branding officer. And we did some incredible work this year with our reverse retro rollout with Adidas. And he he might be like that could be really interesting to talk about how we tied the history and tradition of teams is they've moved around and gone to different markets. Oh, yeah. And then the thought process that went into sort of the jersey development, the color palettes, everything, so I would love that.

Joelly Goodson :

You mean as a guest?

Heidi Browning Pearson:

Yeah. I think you and he was waving you should connect us.

Joelly Goodson :

Well, I will for sure. We'll definitely talk about that. Wow, that's awesome. You know, whenever I have a guest on they're like, Oh, I want to introduce you to and that's how I get so many guests like yourself to be on here. So if people want to learn more about you or they want to connect with you. You said you're on social media.

Heidi Browning Pearson:

I'm on everything.

Joelly Goodson :

What's your handle?

Heidi Browning Pearson:

I'm on Twitter, LinkedIn and Twitter probably the best places to connect. So Twitter, I'm Heidi underscore Golightly. I I'm highly finable though.

Joelly Goodson :

That's from the movie Breakfast at Tiffany's . Have you seen it?

Heidi Browning Pearson:

Yes. We all love Holly Golightly.

Joelly Goodson :

That's how you said that. I was like, okay, but you're Heidi go lately? I'm Heidi Golightly.

Heidi Browning Pearson:

Yeah. So um, feel free to reach out and connect, I try to you know, I try to personally respond to as many people as I can. I've made some wonderful friends through Twitter that I'd never met in real life before and continue to, you know, and occasionally surprised with tickets to the game or, you know, opportunities to meet in person, because the hockey fans are just so amazing. I will continue to do that and make an effort to have a personal connection with as many people as I can. It's great.

Joelly Goodson :

Well, that's so great that you do that. So you're in Colorado now. Is that what you said? You are in San Francisco right now at San Francisco, one of my favorite cities. I love San Francisco. Okay, well, thank you so much. And I will definitely want to be in touch with you when I want to talk to you about the new guests that you're gonna introduce me to and we'll have him on.

Heidi Browning Pearson:

Oh, he's gonna love it. You're gonna love him.

Joelly Goodson :

That'd be great. Well, thank you again, enjoy your time off and have a great weekend. You. Thanks for having me. Have a lovely day. Okay, bye. And there you have it. I really hope you enjoyed the conversation and maybe learned a few things to help you with your branding. But most of all, I really hope you had some fun. This show is a work in progress. So please make sure to rate and review on whatever platform you listen to. And if you want to learn more about the branding badass, that's me. You can find me on social media under you know it, branding badass. Thanks again. And until next time, here's to all you badasses out there.