Branding Matters

Andy Nairn - Go Luck Yourself

March 19, 2021 Branding Badass Season 1 Episode 16
Branding Matters
Andy Nairn - Go Luck Yourself
Show Notes Transcript

My guest today is Andy Nairn, one of the  founders of Lucky Generals; a creative company for people on a mission. 

In 2020, Campaign named Andy the "Top Brand Strategist in the UK", for the 3rd time in 10 years. And Business Insider named him one of the "Top 5 Creative People in World Advertising."

Recently, Andy launched his first book called “GO LUCK YOURSELF - 40 ways to stack the odds in your brand’s favour.” And here’s the best part - ALL the royalties from this book are going to help working class kids get a lucky break into the creative industry.

I invited Andy to be a guest on my show to discuss the role luck plays in branding. I wanted to know why it’s considered taboo in business. And I was curious to get his POV on what role mindset plays on turning misfortune into good fortune.

Joelly Goodson Lang:

Hi, I'm Joelly, your branding badass, and welcome to my new podcast. Branding matters. today is your lucky day because I am sitting down with the one and only Andy Nairn. And he is one of the founders of a company called lucky generals, which is best described as a creative company for people on a mission in 2020 campaign named Andy the top brand strategist in the UK for the third time in 10 years, and Business Insider named him one of the top five creative people in world advertising. I invited Andy to be a guest on my show today to talk about his brand new book called go lucky yourself 40 ways to stack the odds in your brand's favor. Not only do I love the name, but I'm super excited to share that all the royalties from this book are going to help working class kids get a lucky break into the creative industry. Andy, welcome to branding matters.

Andy Nairn:

Thank you very much for having me on. I'm really excited to be here. Oh, I'm

Joelly Goodson Lang:

super excited to have you here. Especially since you're so far away. So you're in the UK? What part of the UK Are you in?

Unknown:

I am just outside of London, although you might detect my accent is not from now I'm from Scotland originally, although I've lived down south for many, many years.

Joelly Goodson Lang:

Okay, yeah, definitely have a Scottish accent. What part of London Are you said south of London.

Unknown:

It's just west of London. So it's very nice. It's kind of New Windsor, actually, of all places. So down on the Thames, very sort of gentle English countryside. So it's actually quite a nice place to be.

Joelly Goodson Lang:

It's beautiful. I was actually there. I went to Windsor Castle, when I was living in London many, many moons ago and went to see Windsor Castle. It's pretty spectacular. We're getting more and more listeners out of the UK. So that's why I wanted to sort of ask where you are. So thank you, again for being here. So let's get right into lucky generals, because I think the name is great. So you're one of three partners of lucky generals. Can you tell us a little bit about the company and where the name came from?

Unknown:

That was one of a name that Danny wanted to call a band when when he was a teenager? He never got around to it. So

Joelly Goodson Lang:

that's a great name for a band.

Unknown:

Yeah, it would be a good name we can. It's not quite as cool as starting a garage band. But you know, it's just an ad agency. But yeah, it was it came from a Napoleon chord. So somebody asked him, What do you look for in your officers, and he said, Oh, just bring me your lucky generals. And I guess what he was probably meaning from that was bringing the people who've got a good track record of getting results. So you know, he didn't really mind how they got the results. It didn't really mind if they got the results through luck. He just wanted them to, you know, achieve something on the battlefield. And I guess what we had hoped back then, is that we've got a quite good track record of getting results for our clients. We like the idea of going into battle for them and working hard for them in the trenches. So yeah, it's paid off pretty well. So far. We work with people at Amazon, who obviously everyone will kind of know that's listening. And then some big British brands like the court, which is a huge retailer over here and things like Yorkshire tea. So it's a lovely mix of big global clients and sort of local ones, too.

Joelly Goodson Lang:

Do you have other offices anywhere else? Are you just in the UK?

Unknown:

No, we actually have an office in New York now on Fifth Avenue. Not that we've seen much of it over the last year, unfortunately. But there's a lovely office there waiting for us when we will get back. And that's because of over half of our business actually is either in the States or North America more generally, because of course of the Amazon business. And we've got a big cruise line called Celebrity Cruises is based down in Miami. So we've always really from the off, we set out to create an international agency because you know, so much of advertising these days is global, big brands want ideas that can work all over the world, not just in one part of it. So we do a lot of work still in London, but we work all over the world. Now.

Joelly Goodson Lang:

You know, it's very true. You talk about the world. I mean, really, we're getting smaller and smaller. And I mentioned to you earlier about my podcasts and how I've listeners all over I mean, we're we're living more than ever now in the virtual world. And we're all connected. And I think this pandemic, which has been horrible has really connected everybody because no one has gone without being touched by it. And so I think it's really shown how small we are in that sense.

Unknown:

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, no, no, look, I'm doing this now. You know who? Exactly someone in Canada seems extraordinary, actually crazy.

Joelly Goodson Lang:

It's great. I love it. So let's talk about your book gold lock yourself. It's a great name. And I love the whole concept around luck when you and I first connected and we talked about it I showed you I have a painting in my basement and it's a huge painting and it says lucky because I've always felt lucky. And any situations that's happened in my life, I've somehow managed not always been easy to find the good in it and turn it around. So I love the concept of luck but you talk about in your book about luck in especially in business, considered a four letter word, which I found really interesting. So can you please explain that?

Unknown:

Yeah, sure. Despite you know, having a company with luck It's name, I sort of became aware last year that I'd never really thought about it very much. I'd never researched it or dug into it. And because there was so much bad luck in the world last year, I started thinking about it a little bit more, you know, we were surrounded with all sorts of terrible things happening. So I started researching it. And what I found was that nobody talks about it really, I mean, I've never had a resume with someone saying that they were just lucky. Or, you know, nobody has began a speech or any awards conference or something like that, that I've been to bicep saying that they were lucky. It's a taboo subject. And actually, when we do use the word luck, it's usually an insult, isn't it? I mean, if I were to say that your success had been lucky, you'd probably think I was being really rude. And I did more and more research. And I found that only 2% of all business books even mentioned a lot. It just struck me as odd because, you know, I've worked in business now for almost 30 years. And I can think of so many occasions where luck has played a part. And when I speak to people in private, and they're not trying to grandstand at a conference, then they'll admit that they've been lucky to so I kind of thought this is quite interesting. There's a thing that we all privately acknowledged does play a part in our lives, but nobody likes to really fess up to it in public. And so I thought I'd maybe try and write a book exploring why that might be the case. You know, to be honest

Joelly Goodson Lang:

with you, I never really thought of luck or lucky as a four letter word. But when you put it in that context, and when you do say to somebody like you got where you are because of luck, it is an insult, right, like, right, it's true. And I never really think about that, because I guess I always thought of it as a positive word. You mentioned earlier about what was going on in the world that you said, you know, there's been so much bad luck that's been happening lately. Do you think that's what it is, is bad luck?

Unknown:

Yeah, I think lots of things. I mean, there are things in the world that happened that can't reasonably be blamed on us. And likewise, things that happen to us that we can't really take the credit for. So for sure, there's good and bad luck. And then I think what's interesting is how you react and respond to those things around reluctance to talk about luck is a really deep rooted thing in Western society in. And actually, it's fair to say that in other parts of the world, people are much more comfortable talking about luck. You know, we probably all know that an Asian business culture is quite a big deal. People are more sort of happy to talk about the rule of law. But in the West, we find it superstitious and primitive. And we don't like to acknowledge that it exists.

Joelly Goodson Lang:

It's almost like when good things happen. They don't want to say it's lucky. They want to take the onus for when bad things happen. It's like, well, it's not my fault. I'm but I have bad luck.

Unknown:

Oh, that's right. This is a lot of thought. And I think, you know, I was trying to draw the distinction between or I might use the analogy of card games or something like that, when you're given a hand of card, that's the hand that you have been dealt. So there's an element of luck in that for sure. And I suppose the equivalent would be in life, you know, what do you inherit? Or where are you born? Or what are the sort of circumstances of your upbringing and stuff? Like, that's nothing to do with you, you can't claim the credit for that. And then beyond that point, it becomes how can you play the best game of cards with the hand that you've been dealt? And that's what it sort of comes down to I think a lot of the time can't do anything, but the cards that were dealt, but we can try to stack the odds in our favor by playing in a particular way. And that's really the controllable lock that I think is interesting in the book is about

Joelly Goodson Lang:

so what role do you think luck plays in building a brand? Is it a big role?

Unknown:

I think it is a really big role plays lots of different functions at different points in a brand like I mean, quite a lot of the brands in the world have been born lucky. You know, a lot of brands were discovered by accident or the products were discovered by accident. Mr. Kellogg's was experimenting with some granola and made some cornflakes that at the time considered a mistake. He didn't like the look at them. But then actually, when they tasted and realize these things taste pretty good. And that's like Kellogg's cornflakes, one of the biggest grocery brands in the world. And is that a true story? That's true. Yeah, there are lots of accidental products. Now, what that requires then is someone to have the smarts to realize that that accident could be a good accident. So it does require some skill still, but it's based in a Lucky's moment in the first place. And then all the way through Ron's existence, really, they might benefit from World Affairs or events in life that are nothing really to do with them. And again, then they have to capitalize on them or and we've seen a lot of this in the last year, they might actually benefit from bad luck, the world might be undergoing a crises. But you know, there are always brands and companies that come out of those sort of crises in better shape because they've managed to spot an opportunity amongst all the bad luck is a mixture of luck, and then the billet capitalize on that luck, that sort of makes a difference.

Joelly Goodson Lang:

Do you have a story about three M and post it notes? Yes, I

Unknown:

was gonna say that's another

Joelly Goodson Lang:

happy accident. That was a great story. Well, what I what I know about that is they were asked to create something that would stick and they didn't stick enough. It wasn't permanent. So they would come apart. And then someone I think at 3pm came up with the idea like, Well, why don't we use these as recyclable items, feel free to put your two cents in? That's just what I know about that's,

Unknown:

I think that's basically the story. And I think that's such a good example, because maybe some of us I probably would have written it off as being just a lousy product. Yeah, who wants that? Right? Let's throw that in the bin. Obviously, somebody had the foresight to think Oh, hold on a second. And you know, that's been a long running you know, gigantic success story that follows and another one that I love is Velcro. Do you know about Velcro was discovered? No, I This was It was somebody called George de mestral. And he was a Swiss engineer. And he was, he was walking his dog through the woods. And when the dog came back, he was covered in burrs, you know, so little seeds. And so he had to spend ages trying to get, I don't know, if you've ever tried to comb bars out of a dog, it can be quite hard work and you needed a big long comb, and lots of other sort of brushes and things. And then he, you know, rather than just stop the other, he put the RS the seeds under microscope, because he was an engineer. So he was kind of interested in how are these things so sticky. And what he found is that there was a very dense combination of hoops and loops that I guess are designed to make the seed stick to birds, feathers, or to animals first, so that they get the spares when he thought, whoa, I wonder if I could do anything with that. And he spent years and years about 10 years perfecting the ability in clothing to make a fastener that didn't require any buttons that really mimic the hooks and loops that you get on seeds. And of course, again, that's become a gigantic global hit that is used all over the world and all sorts of different places. But it was discovered by accident.

Joelly Goodson Lang:

That's great. I love those kind of stories. There's a famous quote Samuel Goldwyn, the harder I work, the luckier I get. And I know you referenced that in your book as well, when you compare hard work versus luck. Do you think they're mutually exclusive? Or do you think they work together?

Unknown:

I think for sure they work together, I would hate for this to be less of a lesson and you don't need to work hard. So the thing that's not the way I raise my kids are sort of very run the business. But yeah, I do think there comes a point where hard work can only get you so far. I mean, it's obviously really helpful. And everyone's gonna work hard if they want to succeed in life. But there comes a point when if all you're doing is slaving away, and especially when you're just slaving away focusing on the thing that you're trying to get better at, there comes a point where the Law of Diminishing Returns kicks in. So if you speak to any musician, or you know, a lot of sports people, there's been a lot of research in this field. If you just practice, practice, practice, of course, you got to do a lot of practice. But after a certain point, you become almost over practiced in steel, and you lose the spontaneity that makes a really great musician or a really great sports player. And if you if you're, for instance, I'm really in a soccer, if you become so over practiced that you're almost too predictable, because you don't have the flair or imagination or spontaneity that the really great players have. You're technically brilliant, but you don't have that creative genius or flair that we all look for and that I think the same applies in business, the best businesses, obviously, people work really hard. But they also create a little bit of space for themselves to have imagination. And sometimes our brains need us to sit back we need to relax or reflect we can't go within 100 miles an hour all the time. And I think increasingly businesses are realizing that it's smart. If you can build a little bit of these lucky breaks into your working life as well as just working really hard all the time, especially

Joelly Goodson Lang:

for creativity. I mean, some of the most creative ideas come when you're not even in the office when course

Unknown:

sometimes a walk outdoors, you know, which is one of the few things we're all allowed to do these days can be incredibly inspirational. In fact, there's a whole discipline of science now called biomimicry, where people learn from things that Mother Nature has already perfected for us, you know, some of these great ideas that have been perfected over billions of years are sitting there right in front of us if we don't open our eyes to nature. And so whether it's that or going to an art gallery, or watching some old movies or just changing things up a little bit, someone is more likely than just continuing to slog away at our desks and read yet another Excel file on our laptops.

Joelly Goodson Lang:

No kidding, definitely. Okay, so let's talk about what are the sources of good fortune companies tend to overlook? Because you didn't mention that in your book. And I thought that was an interesting topic. Do you think that there's a lot of times where companies do overlook fortune when they're not looking in the right place? Or what do you mean by that?

Unknown:

I think it's a bit like us as individuals, as human beings, we often overlook things that are close to home, a classic example would be a brand's heritage, I've oftentimes worked on brands where they have a really interesting history, and the company don't want to talk about them, because they maybe feel that that's gonna make them feel old fashioned. Whereas actually, you can go back through the archive and find out a really interesting story about the brand's origins that you can bring to life in a new, fresh, interesting way doesn't have to be old fashioned. And so it's getting companies to appreciate they might be sitting on a goldmine of wonderful anecdotes and stories, and they just aren't using. So that would be one example, your history. Another one might be provenance, what part of the world they come from, and you know, it's one of these funny human quirks that we don't really appreciate the place that we're from ourselves. And if you asked me where I was from, I'd be all self effacing. Oh, you don't want to hear about that. It's some tiny little place in the middle of nowhere in Scotland. But actually, probably if you went there and had a look at it, you'd think oh, my goodness, this is amazing. It's so beautiful, lovely mountains. And but I don't think that because I'm from there, it's like boring to me, you know, and I left it many years ago. So sometimes companies needed outsider, like maybe an agency where I work to go to where they operate and say, now this place that you're from is amazing. And the whole world would want to know about this. So a lot of the time as an agency, you're going in to find things. There might be a logo, you know, a lot of people have an amazing logo that's just sitting there not being used. We did a big campaign for Amazon where they have the arrow on their boxes, which goes from A to Zed and they look at that box every you know, 1000s of times a day, I guess and and we subsidize so if you're looking at it another way, though, Could be a smile, because I wrote could also be a smile. And once you see it as a smile, we could get the smile to sing. So let's have the boxes singing. And then once you know see it in that light, because we've done four years worth of advertising all over the world with these singing boxes, you sort of can't unsee it in the now you could only see it as a smile, you can't really see it as a dry sort of functional arrow. So that would be again, lots of companies have got amazing logos, or names or brand characters and mascots that they're just not using. And sometimes it just needs to be freshened up a little bit.

Joelly Goodson Lang:

Yeah, that's interesting, maybe because they're too close to it, and they don't write value in it, or they're bored with it, right? It's

Unknown:

like, yeah, it's exactly that. And you know, people want to talk about the new thing. You know, if you're the new marketing boss, or your new job and your new company, you want to talk about the new stuff. And it seems boring to sort of talk about things that have been there for a while they're there for a reason, a lot of the time, you know, they've been successful. And yeah, they need to be updated, of course, but often those things just really, really effective.

Joelly Goodson Lang:

It's funny, you say that I have a client who actually is sort of going through that they've been around for a long time, and very traditional markets get younger, and their audience gets younger, and their clientele gets younger. And they're this old brand. So how do you keep that tradition? Like you said, the origin and bring it into today's world where you're gonna attract that new younger generation while still keeping the heritage?

Unknown:

Yeah, I mean, I think brands like KFC, Colonel Sanders is really old fashioned, in some ways, icon of, you know, 1950s America as opposed to maybe even older. But the advertising agency in the States has brought him back and brought him to life, and a really cool, modern funny way that appeals to 15 year olds in North America. Now, do you know the story behind their famous slogan finger licking good. So that was because somebody complained about one of their adverts, they were running in the States. And in the background, somebody was licking their fingers, which was obviously considered rude and bad manners and a bit gross. And so somebody phoned up the station to complain about it. And rather than sort of apologize, they thought, hey, maybe we can turn this into a good thing. So their explanation in the next ad was the reason the guys were licking their fingers is because it's tastes so good, and they just couldn't help it. And therefore, it's finger licking good. And of course, that's no run for decades as a great example of sort of turning things around. And you know, again, seizing the opportunity,

Joelly Goodson Lang:

I call them happy accidents, actually, yeah. I think that's great. Let's talk about timing. You talk about the power of timing, and how important that is. Can you share a bit more about that?

Unknown:

Yes. Would that be an example of something that's often just put off to pure luck? You know, people will say, Oh, he just had lucky timing, the right the right place at the right place, the right time. And yeah, for sure, that can be something that people benefit from. But you can also game the system, if you like, by thinking carefully about when you time, your move everybody, from comedians, to sports people, musicians, they will tell you, there's a science to timing. It's not just pure luck. And I think one of the interesting things that's been discovered over the last few years, his timing, and the power of timing isn't always as you might imagine it to be. So for many years, we've been told as marketers that going first is a really helpful thing. So if you launch your product first, first to market, but actually, what you find often is that it's not the first person that succeed, they sometimes do. But quite often, what happens is somebody lets them make a few mistakes, figures out how they do it does it cheaper or better in a different way, and then cleans up as a result, so maybe it's like the second or third Brandon. And there's a lovely quote, I think from Franklin D. Roosevelt. He said, we often talk about the good luck of the early bird, but we don't think often enough about the bad luck of the early worm. You know, sometimes there's a swings and roundabouts thing sometimes if you get up early, and your first day like that worm, you get eaten. So you know, maybe about to leave it a little while and watch for mistake. And then I think there's an interesting sort of science around that.

Joelly Goodson Lang:

I have a great example of that. Do you know what it is? Go on fire anything about my space?

Unknown:

Oh, yes. Great. Yes.

Joelly Goodson Lang:

When you were talking, I'm like, Okay, so my face that came out and didn't really take off. They were first to market and then Facebook came in bam.

Andy Nairn:

Yeah, that's a brilliant example.

Joelly Goodson Lang:

It's interesting what you said about timing, you can see someone and then look at what they're not doing. And then lean into that and offer that and do it better. And then you'll become more successful. Is that what you're referring to? As far as? Yes, very much.

Unknown:

Yeah. I mean, I've done a lot of work with Virgin over the years, and Richard Branson, and he is an unbelievably creative and innovative person. But he's never really invented anything. He's never been first to anything. But he's always waited deliberately gone into markets where things were going badly, and then he would come in and make them better. You know, you don't need to invent brand new things to succeed. You can just wait for everybody in Britain hated British Airways because it was an old stuffy airline. So he came in with Virgin Atlantic and made it right and fun and fresh and exciting. He had no background in aviation at all. I mean, he was from the music business. He just saw an opportunity to take a market which is failing and a brand that was failing and come in with something much better. And he's done that in every other market with

Joelly Goodson Lang:

no kidding. Well, you mentioned music so virgin music that was his as well. Correct? Yeah, that's right. What's the story with that? Well, he

Unknown:

started off as a student selling records in a direct mail catalog sort of business and then he opened a record shop and then he had The record label. So he his big moment came when the Sex Pistols were shocking the world in the 1970s. And he was the only person that would touch them. So he signed them up at a point when nobody else would deal with them. And then for a while, you know, he was really just all about music, and then decided to launch an airline. And there's a craziest idea you've ever heard, because, of course, you had no experience, but he applied the same sort of rock and roll principles to that business. And funnily enough, he then had a holiday business and we'd worked on this and we had to try and figure out a way to sort of bring his holiday services vacation brand to life, and we came up with idea of rock star service because it just felt like a great way to bring up how it wasn't just like four star service or five star service. This is the brand that is used to dealing with Richard Branson and Mick Jagger and all his Rockstar friends that he flies around the world with and we heard Jimi Hendrix's road manager to teach all the holiday reps that run the vacation resorts about how do you look after rock stars, so they loved it. You know, rather than just go some boring conference about customer service, they were getting taught the tips of how you deal with demanding customers like rock stars, and then we created inflatable television sets that could go in the hotel rooms that you could throw out of the window. Have you have your own little rock star moment and oh my god, I love it. The whole idea of rock star services became this they made their resorts feel cool and interesting and fun, worthy, all that different from anyone else's, I don't know. But you had a sense that you were living a bit of the rock star lifestyle if you're a virgin.

Joelly Goodson Lang:

That's a great example of a really good brand and taken an airline like you said they weren't the first out of the gate, but giving it that twist and I love the term Rockstar service. You talk about in your book a great quote here where you say it's better to be stupidly distinctive than deeply different. Can you elaborate on that? And what it means?

Unknown:

Yeah, sure. I guess it means that we don't have to always overthink this stuff. And I say that because for many years, classical marketing theory has taught us that we need to find a really deep and meaningful positioning, you know, we have to find the famous unique selling proposition and causes us all to scratch your heads and work out what is it that we can say that is only uniquely honorable and meaningful about our brand. And actually, a lot of the research that's been done very scientifically over the last few years, kind of suggests that people don't really make decisions that way. Often times we don't really think very hard about the purchases we make at all. And sometimes it's better to be just as I say stupidly distinctive. In other words, they're really really stand out even if you're not standing out for any particular reason. So my example would be Toblerone chocolate, which we're all familiar with, right of triangular cylinder bar is actually delicious. But the fact that it's a triangle makes absolutely no, there's no benefit to that. In fact, if anything is it makes it hard to eat, doesn't they use? Absolutely. Well, sometimes. So in classical marketing theory, I guess you might say, well, that's a bad thing, you should round off those edges, because that's not benefit. In fact, it's almost on a disadvantage. But actually, the reason it succeeds is because it's very, very noticeable, we can spot that bar, and there's nothing like it. It's absolutely unique. So what this theory is now telling us has been backed up by all this data is increasingly showing us that something as simple as a color, or a piece of music, or a logo or a shape can be really, really powerful. Even if those things if there's been no theory attached to why that color is the color, it can just be as simple as well, it because it stands out and makes us remember it and that's okay, too. So

Joelly Goodson Lang:

do you not think then that that unique selling proposition is important. If

Unknown:

you can find a unique selling proposition, then that's fantastic. But quite often, it's hard to maintain that because we live in a world where products can be so easily copied and captured. I mean, that didn't really exist, you know, many years ago. But now if I come up with a great product, you can probably copy it, if not in our part of the world. And it might be in a different part of the world, hugely cheaper costs, and you can be out there in the market weeks after mind. So those sort of rational product differences don't tend to last all that long. It's how you bring them to life with branding, and then how you come instantly to mind. There's a lot of research being done now about what's called mental availability, being the first brand that comes to mind, even if you're quite similar to some other brands. And that's where things like colors and advertising and a brand character and so on become really important.

Joelly Goodson Lang:

I mean, really, that was the impetus for me doing this podcast is because I feel that right now probably more than ever, what is gonna make somebody choose your brand over someone else is your branding. Right? And I think that's what people are struggling with. One of the reasons why have you which is great is to share out to compete in a way that is going to get you attention and get noticed and all the rest of it. So what's the Fresh Start effect? And why is it

Unknown:

so important? That is a psychological phenomenon whereby it's been proven that as human beings, we like to make fresh start, the obvious one is New Year's Day, you know, where we all make resolutions, we start off good intentions. And so that can be quite a useful moment to align yourself with if you're a brand if you can create the sense of this being a new dawn. So thinking about how can you position your brand as being a fresh start, even if it's a very old organization can be really quite a powerful.

Joelly Goodson Lang:

Is that the same as rebranding?

Unknown:

Yes, I think it's the context that you put your brand in. It's how you talk about your brand and the language that you use, you know So we always talk about this being a decade of cooperation after a decade of division, you're resetting the clock. And we're starting from this. And the other great example of it is Amazon, who we also work with. And

Joelly Goodson Lang:

with Amazon.

Unknown:

I mentioned that so many times, it's difficult to avoid talking about them sit there, so people call me call me. This will be the last time I'm

Andy Nairn:

proud. It's a great client.

Unknown:

They're just very interesting. They, they talk about a D. People can kind of nothing What am I saying here? What am I even talking about? Let's talk about a day one approach where they're always trying to be day one, so that every day is day one. And when they lose that sense of being day one, that's the day that they sort of talk about, it's all gonna go wrong for them. Okay, another great quote from your book where you say lucky people have better peripheral vision, while unlucky people tend to focus on the job at hand, people, especially at the moment, because we've got our heads down. And we're sort of you know, everyone's hard working, and it's worrying and all the rest of it, we sometimes miss out on all these other opportunities elsewhere. And there's an amazing experiment by this chap called Professor Richard Wiseman is an expert on the psychology of luck. And he gets people to self identify, he asks them, you know, do you identify as I'm a lucky person, I'm mostly an unlucky person. And then he gets them all to look through a newspaper and count how many photographs are in the newspaper. And what he finds is that the people who say they're lucky, can do the task in a couple of seconds. And the people who say they're unlucky take minutes, you know, much, much longer. And the reason is, he puts a little advert on page two saying you can stop currently, now there's 42 photographs in this newspaper, just tell the researcher and take your money, and you can go home. And what lucky people really are often all that lucky really means is that I am someone who has my eyes open and looking out for opportunities around me, and not just buried in one task. And often what unlucky people, when they complain about their bad luck, it's just that they're missing out on opportunities, because their head is buried, and they're not spotting the things that are when luck is waving at them across the room, they don't notice that they don't recognize the knock at the door when opportunity comes along. And so one of the things he does with individuals is to kind of train people to be more aware of stuff that's going on. And the peripheral vision. I think that really affects organizations too. That's where I focus on the book is how can organizations not just be so focused on their own thing, that they miss out all the other interesting things that may be happening in a different sector or a different culture or a different part of the world? Or, you know, just things that are not that you wouldn't expect them to be thinking about?

Joelly Goodson Lang:

What about brands that think of themselves as unlucky? Is there a way that these brands can turn their misfortune around? And how much does mindset play in that?

Unknown:

I think mindset is a huge part of it. So you know, a lot of the most successful brands in history have been born out of bad luck or have turned an unlucky situation around and it is about sort of seeing how what looks like a problem or a crisis or a flaw and just sort of looking at it from a different angle. If you have an optimistic view, you might think well, actually, that's an opportunity that I could build something around. Whereas if you're pessimists, you'll sort of look at and think well, typical me we've got such bad luck. In the book, I told tell stories about people like Walt Disney. So Walt Disney, his first big breakthrough was actually with a rabbit called Oswald the Lucky Rabbit. And he made a lot of money with his first films starring this kind of cartoon rabbit. And then he went to New York to sign this mega deal that was going to clinch them another 25 movies, and his partner cheated him out of the rabbit. So he was left with nothing. And he was sitting on a train coming back from New York to Los Angeles, and he'd been cheated out of the race. And actually, this guy had taken all his people with them as well. So he'd stolen all his employees. And he was left with nothing. And he was really despondent, about to give up. But he started sketching in a sketchbook. And by the end of the long journey to Los Angeles, he'd come up with Mickey Mouse. And he then looked back on this, and he said that the luckiest thing about Oswald, the Lucky Rabbit was that he lost him. And he ended up with something much more successful. So that's a lovely story. And there's a lovely sort of sequel to that. It's a bit of trivia this, but many decades later. So after long after Walt Disney had died, the Disney Corporation found out who owned the rights to Oswald, the Lucky Rabbit, and of course, that had died without a trace, because without Walt Disney's imagination, it was nothing so it never took off. But they found out who know owned the rights to that they traced the person bought the rights and know this creature Oswald, the Lucky Rabbit makes little guest appearances in you know, there's merchandise with them. And he pops up with the occasional film as a sort of a bit part player, which I think is a lovely sort of armor there for sentimental gestures, because they figured that what would have been sort of pleased if they'd done it. Yeah,

Joelly Goodson Lang:

that's a great story. I love that. Well. Wow. I love talking to you. Yes. It's great information. Andy, Do you consider yourself to be lucky

Unknown:

you won't be surprised to know that I do find myself. I do think I'm lucky. I think we should all be appreciative of overlap. All of us have, I'm sure had good luck of some sort, even if we don't think about it. And in my case, you know, I grew up in a small nondescript, very ordinary place in the middle of nowhere very far from the bright lights of London and advertising. But for starters, I had a really loving family that was, you know, I mean, a lot of people in the world don't start off with that. Right. So that gives you a huge, huge advantage in life. I then stumbled into advertising, I was trained as a lawyer. Wow. It's a long, long story, how I sort of fell into advertising by accident.

Joelly Goodson Lang:

It's an interesting topic, right? It's like you said, What came first the chicken or the egg? Like, are you lucky? Because all these good things happen to you? Or all these good things happen to you? Because you're lucky. Oh, the book is fantastic. Now, I think what's really great is that you are launching in North America, right? I mean, up until now, it's only been unveiled in the UK. So when is it going to be available for people all over North America? So

Unknown:

it's available for pre order? No. So you can go to Amazon? And whether that's an Amazon,

Joelly Goodson Lang:

that's your client, right?

Andy Nairn:

Yeah. Oh, I know, I know, I know, or Barnes and Noble.

Unknown:

You can pre order it now. And then it comes out in June and I should say is that I'm giving all the royalties to an organization that I was working class kids, because I like the karma. It's a book about luck, that is hopefully bringing a bit of luck to other people that will help them find a job in our industry, because I'm sure this is the same in North America. But it's hard for kids that you know, don't have advantages in life to get into an industry like media or marketing. So I want to try and give them a little helping hand.

Joelly Goodson Lang:

That's reason enough to buy the book. And it's actually a really great book as well, because you sent me the digital version. So I was able to read it ahead of time. I was one of the first in North America. So people want to learn more about you and lucky generals and more about what you do. What's the best way for them to reach you? Are you on social media?

Unknown:

I'm on social media, which is just as simple at an engineer and lucky generals is just at lucky general. still nice and simple. Pretty simple.

Joelly Goodson Lang:

And where are you? You're on LinkedIn. Are you on Instagram

Unknown:

on all the usual places on LinkedIn? And I'm very occasional on Instagram, but I have to say I'm much more a Twitter person. Yeah. And

Joelly Goodson Lang:

are you on tik tok?

Unknown:

No, I am mostly to do silly things with my children. But embarrassing to them.

Joelly Goodson Lang:

Oh, that's funny. And what about clubhouse? Do you guys have clubhouse there? Have you heard of clubhouse?

Unknown:

Yes, I am not. I have not ventured into that space. But everyone seems to be talking about it. Have you been doing it? Well, I

Joelly Goodson Lang:

was invited on and I had no idea what it was. Yeah. And I'm there. And I'm sort of avoider right now. I'm trying to figure it out. I'm not really sure how it's working yet. I mean, I've gone on. And I've heard conversations here and there. So the verdicts still out for me. But yeah, I think it's interesting. I don't know.

Unknown:

I think that's why I like Twitter, because it's so simple and quick. Time for all. I know. It's just like, overwhelming. And the one that's the easiest one.

Joelly Goodson Lang:

Yeah, absolutely. What's your handle on Twitter? That's an adventure. Okay, great. Awesome. Well, thank you again, it was such a pleasure to talk with you. And next time I'm over on your side of the pond. Maybe we can get together and have a pint or something. Absolutely.

Unknown:

Thank you so much. Really good fun. And yeah, I'd love to see you in real life at some point. Yeah,

Joelly Goodson Lang:

that'd be great. Thank you, Andy. We'll talk Thank you. Okay, bye. And there you have it. Thank you so much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed the conversation, and maybe even learned a few things that will help you with your branding. And most of all, I really hope you had some fun. This podcast is a work in progress. So please make sure to rate and review what you think. And please subscribe to branding matters on whatever platform you listen to. And if you want to learn more about the branding badass, that's me. You can find me on social media under you guessed it, branding badass. Thanks again. And until next time, here's to all you badasses out there.