Branding Matters

How to Show Up Even When You Don't Feel Like It with Bill Petrie & Kirby Hasseman (Promo Upfront)

July 21, 2023 Branding Badass Episode 92
Branding Matters
How to Show Up Even When You Don't Feel Like It with Bill Petrie & Kirby Hasseman (Promo Upfront)
Show Notes Transcript

Ever wondered why some brands, like Kleenex or Apple, become so ingrained in our lives that they feel like part of the family? Curious about the secret sauce behind such unforgettable brands?

In this episode, branding experts Bill Petrie and Kirby Hasseman sit down with me to dive into the intricacies of building iconic brands, the importance of brand consistency, and how to establish a unique brand. Trust me, when it comes to strategic marketing and branding, these guys know their stuff!

We go deep into branding principles with Bill and Kirby, uncovering the power of showing up, the impact of obsessing over the small details, and the difference between brand marketing and target marketing.

It's a treasure trove of insights, chock-full of lively banter and practical branding tips. So, are you ready to take your branding knowledge to the next level? Can't wait for you to hear it!

Here are the key takeaways from this episode:

01:58 - How Bill and Kirby started the Promo UPFront Podcast

03:22 - Engaging with people’s content helps build relationships

06:10 - The selection process for the Powerhouse Women of Promo list

11:13 - It’s the small things that make the biggest difference especially in customer service

15:23 - The difference between Brand Marketing and Target Marketing

17:57 - Showcase your expertise through meaningful ways

19:54 - Kirby’s TARGET acronym in marketing

About Our Guests

Award-winning branding expert Bill Petrie is a co-founder of Brandivate and the co-host of the Promo UpFront podcast. Bill's unique strategic thinking and passion for branding make him a sought-after advisor for businesses seeking to elevate their brand awareness. He, along with Kirby, founded their podcast to help others navigate the world of branding, sharing their insights and strategies with a global audience.

Kirby Hasseman, CEO of Hasseman Marketing and co-host of the Promo UpFront podcast, is known for his marketing expertise and commitment to excellence. Famous for his 'Monday Minute' and strong social media presence, Kirby uses his platform to educate and inspire. He's not only a marketing expert but also a mentor for those seeking to master the art of branding. Together with Bill, they make a dynamic duo in the branding and marketing sphere, sharing their wisdom through their podcast and daily engagements.

About Me

Hey there, I'm Joelly (aka the Branding Badass). For more than 20 years, I've immersed myself in the dynamic world of brand strategy, marketing and branded merch.

In 2021, I launched 'BRANDING MATTERS' - a podcast designed to help marketers and business owners create brand equity to increase profit.

With each episode, I dive deep into the world of brand identity, digital marketing strategies, and content creation, alongside leaders and experts, all sharing their inspiration

Thanks for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a 5-star rating along with a brief review.

About Me
Hey there, I'm Joelly - the Branding Badass. My badass superpower is helping you build a brand that matters. From branded merch to brand consulting, when you work with me, you get results!

Need help creating brand awareness?
Learn more here

Let's stay connected!

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[00:00:00] Joelly: Hi, I'm Joelly, your branding badass and welcome to Branding Matters, a podcast I created and host to help you build brand equity for your business. Today you are in for a real treat because I'm sitting down with not one, but two very special guests. Bill Petrie and Kirby Hasseman are the creators and host of Promo Upfront, a popular podcast where these two brilliant thought leaders share their unfiltered thoughts on the world of branded merch marketing and branding with a heavy dose of reality and humor. And let me tell you, their chemistry is off the charts, which I'm sure you will soon discover. During our fun conversation, we cover everything from powerhouse women in promo to the power of branding. Other topics Kirby and Bill and I talk about our how to turn a handshake into a hug, why obsessing over the small details matters and the difference between brand marketing and target marketing, just to name a few. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did, and hopefully it's gonna help you with your branding. 

[00:01:06] Bill Kirby, welcome to Branding Matters. 

[00:01:09] Kirby: Thank you so much. We're so excited, uh, to be here. I'll speak for Bill on that. We are, we're fired up. We, we love what you're doing. 

[00:01:15] Bill: We a hundred percent are. Thank you so much for having us. Well, Kirby and I are kind of fanboying over here. We're, we're on with you on your podcast. This is awesome. 

[00:01:25] Joelly: Oh, well, right back at you. I mean, you guys, I love what you're doing as well too, and I love that, you know, the three of us are in the same industry and yet I'm in Calgary, Canada. Bill, you're in Nashville? Mm-hmm. And Kirby, you're in Ohio. And here we are, the three of us getting together and talking about stuff that we love and we're all, I think that's fair for me to say. I think we're all passionate about branding and so that's why I brought you guys on today. So thank you for being here. So with that said, I mean, you guys living so far away from each other, how did you connect and come up with the idea of starting the Promo UpFront Podcast

[00:01:58] Bill: Yeah, I'll give the Readers Digest version. So Kirby and I worked at the same promotional products company many, many years ago, and, uh, we developed a friendship over time.

[00:02:10] Bill: People go their separate ways and we went our separate ways in terms of business and what he was doing and what I was doing. And then, uh, we reconnected about eight or nine years ago. I saw Kirby doing a ton of content and I was really in awe of what. He had turned his marketing machine into, I was starting to do the same thing independently, really without the knowledge that Kirby was doing it.

[00:02:33] Bill: But then as soon as I saw he was doing it, I'm like, that's a, a model I should follow. And I reached out to Kirby and I just said, Hey, you know, I really admire what you do, and. Uh, I'd love to reconnect again. I kind of missed talking to you, and, and that's really, uh, how it started. And then K could probably take it from there. But we started doing things together. He had me on this podcast delivering marketing joy, and then, uh, we started doing some things together. 

[00:02:56] Kirby: For me, this is one of those things I think Danny Rosen is a, most of us know that this says social media will never replace a handshake, but it'll turn a handshake into a hug. And I think this is a great example of that because Bill was doing blogs. Uh, I noticed when he started his company a couple times a week, I was doing some blogs and some video, and we started just like, oh, I like what he's doing. And he was commenting on mine. And, and those of us who create content I think are attuned to this, but maybe everybody isn't.

[00:03:22] Kirby: When you do create content and someone likes, engages, comments, shares, any of that sort of thing, That is such a feel good, especially when you're just starting out with it. It is amazing how giving that sort of wink of attention really does kind of bolster someone who's doing something like that and it helps you keep doing the thing that you're doing.

[00:03:40] Kirby: And I think that Bill and i's relationship kind of reconnecting was a great example of us just engaging with each other's content to the point where we're like, you know what? I. I kinda like that guy. It's really helpful. Um, yeah, and I think that the lesson in that is that if you're working with other clients, if you start engaging with their content, it's amazing how that helps to build the relationship, 

[00:03:59] Joelly: Just like us Right? Meeting, we've actually never met in person, so I love that. Yeah. 

[00:04:03] Bill: Not, not at all. Not, yeah. So to answer your question on the podcast, you know, we started doing some content through a not-for-profit in the promotional products industry. Called Promo Kitchen, which is focused on education and mentorship of new people in the promotional products industry.

[00:04:19] Bill: And Kirby and I started writing a kind of a dual blog. We always said that it's the topics people talk about in the corner of the bar, but nobody really wants to talk about publicly, and we would purposely take opposing views of those things. It was called salt and Pepper. And, uh, we would, you know, take sides maybe we didn't agree with, but it always opened our eyes to the other side of those arguments.

[00:04:38] Bill: And we did it live one time at our large national conference for the Promotional Products Association in Las Vegas. And people were throwing questions at us and, uh, we said, I think we sat down after that and said we should do a radio show or something like that. And that's what became the podcast. And we've done two iterations of it.

[00:04:56] Bill: First one was called unscripted, and we did that for 203 episodes. I decided to. Leave the company I was with where that podcast was housed and start brand of eight. So, uh, we took a three or four week, maybe five week pause and started promo upfront, very similar but a little bit different. And we've done 150 episodes of that 154.

[00:05:15] Bill: So for basically the better part of eight years now, every Friday morning we darken, uh, the podcast doorstep with something Bill and Kirby. 

[00:05:23] Joelly: That's amazing. I love that. Well, congratulations to you both. You have great chemistry together. You, you feed off each other really well and I've listened to your show and it's great.

[00:05:34] Joelly: So congrats first of all on your 154 episode. So let's talk about episode 141 cause that's how I discovered you guys. Yeah. It's funny how life is, I was just working away and I got a message from somebody out of the blue on social media and they were like, wow, congrats on making the powerhouse woman of promo list.

[00:05:54] Joelly: And I was like, what? Didn't know what it was. So then she sent me the link cuz I go, what's that? So she sent me the link and it was to your podcast. And then I listened to it, and then I heard my name. I'm like, who are these guys and how do they know me? And it was so funny, and I was very honored and touched, and I didn't even know how you knew me.

[00:06:10] Joelly: And so then I reached out to both of you individually and said, wow, thank you for having me on your list. I really appreciate it. That was very nice of you. So tell me about this powerhouse woman of promo list. How did you come up with it? How did I make the list? How did you even learn of me? This girl in Calgary, I'm curious to know.

[00:06:26] Kirby: Uh, so one of the secrets of the podcast is that Bill really drives the bus, and I don't probably give him enough credit on that. He's the person who sets up the appointments. He, you know, if there are specific things, most of the time we don't know what he other's gonna talk about. But if there's like a topic like this, bill's usually the one who drives it.

[00:06:42] Kirby: And so he approached me and said, we, we need to recognize the, the women in our industry who are doing great work. And I said, awesome. So he kind of, Came up with the categories and the whole nine yards. But then as we come up with the, Hey, here's the distributor, here's this all the different categories, we come up with those separately and sort of make the case for them.

[00:06:59] Kirby: And so I will tell you it's been, and, and Bill and I have talked about this many times, it's the most fun podcast we do every year. It's also the most work. Like it's the one that we really do the most research on. You said, how did you find out about you? And it was like, it was funny because we are really looking around the internet for people who are doing interesting work around our industry and Bill's really good about this as he always makes sure that he brings up new people each year and kind of introduces the, the audience to new folks.

[00:07:27] Kirby: And so that's I think sort of a, how it kind of came to b and b. I think one of the ways we. We kind of came to know Jolie and the badass woman you are. 

[00:07:36] Joelly: Well, thank you so much, first of all, including me. And so what about all the other women on the list? I mean, how do you decide who gets on the list?

[00:07:41] Bill: Yeah, good question. And I want to touch on something Kirby said. He's absolutely right. He does not give me enough credit for driving the bus on the podcast, and so I'm really glad that we're getting, we're clear there. 

[00:07:56] Bill: Uh, so joking aside, the way we come up with that is we do look at women who are doing great things, whatever they're doing.

[00:08:04] Bill: It might be marketing, it might be sales, it might be someone who's new to the industry. We just like to focus on women because historically in the promotional products industry, it's been very male dominated. And I think it's incumbent upon all of us to kind of help elevate male, female. It doesn't matter.

[00:08:20] Bill: We don't care what color you are. We don't care any of that. Who's doing things that make us sit up and take notice and go, wow. That's interesting, or I've never seen anybody do that. Or maybe it's something as simple as they're really marketing themselves very well. Mm-hmm. I didn't know who they were a year ago, and now they're a recognized expert in whatever space they're in.

[00:08:40] Bill: So there's a lot of research behind it. There's a lot of thought behind it, and I can honestly say there's a lot of care behind it. We hope it always comes across the way we intend it. Thoughtful. Caring and uplifting. And honestly, it is the most fun podcast we do every year. It, it's something we absolutely look forward to.

[00:08:58] Joelly: That's great. Do you guys ever disagree on who's gonna be on the list? 

[00:09:02] Bill: Um, no. I don't think there's been much disagreement. I think there's been times we might, we'll never disagree on air for that one. There, there's no, it is an opinion. Yeah. There might be times afterwards we say, well, what were you thinking there?

[00:09:14] Bill: Because that came outta left field for me. And Kirby might say that to me, or I might say that to him. And generally the thing is, well, here's what I am seeing, cuz just because I don't see it doesn't make it invalid. So we do wanna hear each other. 

[00:09:28] Joelly: You don't share the people before you go on your podcast? So you're both learning about each other's lists at the same time? 

[00:09:35] Kirby: That's right. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Well, well, and it, and what's, what I like about it Joelly, is because we do it that way, if you go back and listen to it, I think it was Bill who brought your name up, if you go back and listen to that episode, yeah, you're welcome.

[00:09:47] Bill: But, but it's funny cuz you'll hear me. You do ride the bus.

[00:09:49] Kirby: Yeah, that's right. I told you you don't get enough credit. Yeah. Okay. But what I would say is sometimes he'll say somebody, or I'll say somebody and we'll be like, oh yeah, that's a really good one, because we are coming up in silos and then we come together at the same time.If that makes sense.

[00:10:04] Bill: Of the years we've been doing it, and I think we've been doing that specific podcast some for like five or six years now. No one's ever said, who the hell is that? So that's good. 

[00:10:16] Joelly: Awesome. Okay so let's talk about branding. So branding is obviously the art of differentiating yourself from your competition. And Bill, I've heard you say quote, to truly separate your business from the competition, don't sweat the small details, obsess over them. Yes. And I love that quote. I think that's a great quote. So can you elaborate on that and that, how that helps the business differentiate themselves? 

[00:10:39] Bill: A hundred percent. My whole business is based on helping other companies tell their stories through marketing and branding. And it doesn't matter what industry you're in. You could be in a service oriented industry, you could be a product oriented industry. The fact is most companies, most of your competitors, Do the big things.

[00:10:57] Bill: Well, they will manufacture whatever they manufacture well. They will ship it out on time. It will be received, it'll be received by the ultimate end user in the appropriate amount of time. You'll invoice everybody correctly. And I bet everybody's really good at invoicing. I know I am. Everybody does the big things well.

[00:11:13] Bill: It's the small things that make the biggest difference. And so when I hear someone say, that's a small detail. That's where you need to obsess yourself. That's the only way you differentiate. You know, things like Amazon, Amazon's a great example. It's not so much that they ship. Prime merchandise within two days.

[00:11:33] Bill: It's the fact that I can track it super easily. It's the fact that in any moment I know where it is. It's the fact that if I'm out of town, they'll take a picture of it on my doorstep. It's little things like that that I didn't e even know. I want the best companies understand what I want, or I even know I want it.

[00:11:51] Bill: Mm. And that's what I mean by small details. So if I go into a hotel and I notice. The top of a frame is dusty. I know it's not a great place to stay, and I don't care what brand it is. I know they're not paying attention to the small details, and if they're not paying attention to the small details, they're all on autopilot and just letting things run themselves.

[00:12:12] Bill: I don't run a business like that, and I try to help my clients do the same thing, obsess over those small details because that's what makes you unique. I don't think I'd ever walk into a Ritz Carlton and see a dusty top of a picture frame, and I think if I did, someone would be in. Deep, deep trouble. Yeah, 

[00:12:29] Joelly: I love that. It's so true. Kirby, do you wanna add anything to that?

[00:12:32] Kirby: He's exactly right. I think that one of the, one of the ways that you stand out, and I think the other thing is when people hear that, they think, well, you know, I don't have deep pockets. And I think Bill would say caring is not expensive. And I think that it is funny to me how many big companies or small companies, when I feel seen, when I feel heard.

[00:12:52] Kirby: Those are the little things, right? When you call customer service over a problem. For example, own your mistakes, own your shit. Cuz when you own that, like you turn haters into advocates. And I think that those are obsessing over the little details. Understands that, okay, we're gonna do what we say we're gonna do.

[00:13:10] Kirby: And then when things are. There are mistakes and we own that, man. People stand out by doing the little things, so I couldn't agree more with what Bill said. 

[00:13:17] Joelly: You know, it's all easy. Like you said, bill, when everything's going well and you're all doing the basics, what the job description, let's just say.

[00:13:24] Joelly: Mm-hmm. Right? You're just, that's what everybody does, but how are you differentiating yourself from your competitors? Is. Finding little things that maybe they're not doing that you know are just gonna add value to what you're offering your clients, where they, like you said, Kirby, feel appreciative. Like, wow, I really do matter, and wow, she knows me or he knows me.

[00:13:42] Bill: If you're running an event, for example, have a room drop every night, just a little something. Doesn't cost much to do a little room drop every night. Hey, great seeing you today. Can't wait for tomorrow. Here's a little agenda reminder, we'll see you in the morning. Just little things like that. It takes effort. But as Kirby will tell you, effort doesn't cost anything. 

[00:13:59] Joelly: I've talked about this all the time. And when it comes to branding, I mean a huge part of your branding is your customer service. Mm-hmm. Because you know, branding is the actions that you do that motivate and inspire your audience or the people you're trying to serve to fall in love with your brand.

[00:14:13] Kirby: 100%. The example I use these days is I, I think that that social media and and done right content marketing, social media actually allows us to become more of a small town online. I use the example of the butcher and my grandmother years and years and years ago, small town, tiny little town. But when my grandma walked into, you know, the butcher shop, the butcher knew my grandma's name.

[00:14:32] Kirby: The butcher knew what kind of meat that my grandfather liked. On Friday nights. The butcher took extra special care of my grandmother because my grandmother was a good customer, but she also had 11 friends. And so if he didn't take good cus care of her, she would tell them, yeah, social media actually allows for that at scale.

[00:14:50] Kirby: And so that's the, that's the thing about it is by doing those little things, those obsessing over those little things that Bill talks about, you have the ability to really explode your business by caring. And that's, that's pretty cool way to grow.

[00:15:01] Joelly: You know, you talked about the butcher, my grandmother, it sounds like the name of a band. I always love band names and whenever I hear something like that, I'm like, oh, that'd be a good name for a band. I love it. Anyway, sorry I'm diverting. That's great. Different. I'm diverting a little bit. No, I love it. Okay, so Kirby, you and I chatted before about the difference between brand marketing and target marketing.What is the difference between brand marketing and target marketing?

[00:15:23] Kirby: Brand marketing is the kind of marketing where you're building your brand. It's the super bowl ad. Like I always say that, you know, Coca-Cola might do a Super Bowl ad, but they don't expect you to leave the Superbowl party to run out and buy Coke.

[00:15:35] Kirby: They are building top of mind awareness. So the next time you go to the grocery store, you see Coke and you wanna buy it. And then there's direct marketing. That's the ones where you, you are literally making an offer. You're saying you're sending your your list and email and saying, Hey, we have this particular thing on special.

[00:15:49] Kirby: Click here to buy. Now, both are good and both are important parts of your marketing. But where people get an nod to Seth Godin, who I know has been on your podcast, but when you measure brand marketing using direct marketing metrics, it will always fail. They're different. Mm-hmm. One of the things that I always say is content marketing done really well.

[00:16:08] Kirby: That's give first where you're providing value. That's brand marketing, which means it's really hard when somebody says, okay, great, your podcast's wonderful, but what's the roi? Mm-hmm. Right? What the ROI is is something you're gonna see in 24 months when clients start to look at you differently. And so to me that that's the big difference.

[00:16:27] Joelly: Yeah and so can you give an example? I mean, you talked about content marketing and podcasts as far as brand marketing. What is an example of target marketing? It's, or direct marketing?

[00:16:34] Kirby: So the direct marketing, I think, you know, I think that's where you go to your client base or whatever and you're saying, okay, it's time to register for our event.

[00:16:42] Kirby: It's time to purchase this specific product, and it's time for to sign up for this. You are sending out a marketing message with an expected result and you can say, okay, you send out a thousand emails, 30% were opened, 5% clicked. This many people bought, and it's great to have those metrics. That is really cool because then you can really measure, okay, how well are my emails doing?

[00:17:03] Kirby: How well are these doing that me? Those metrics are great and they're powerful. But there's something in seeing a, uh, company's name or Bill Petrie's name or Joelly's name weekly in an inbox. There's both. And so to me that's, that's the big difference.

[00:17:17] Bill: Yeah, a hundred percent. And, and Kirby's so spot on with this, and I love when Kirby talks about this, I, I'll give you an example.

[00:17:23] Bill: I can tell you that my business at Brandvate, I'll tell you that fully 80 to 90% of my clients have come from what Kirby would call brand marketing. I don't run specials. I don't say, Hey, I'm discounting something if you sign up by the end of the month. It is constant me putting things out there into the world.

[00:17:43] Bill: Showcasing what we can do. I write a blog every week. It's something I've done for probably 10 years now. It comes out every Monday, and I don't care what Monday it is. I don't care if it's Christmas day. I don't care if it's Boxing Day. I don't care what day it is, if it's Arbor Day, it's coming out on Monday and I don't care.

[00:17:57] Bill: It's important to me to maintain that consistency. And it's an opportunity for me to use brand marketing to showcase my expertise without saying, Hey, look at me. I'm an expert. And I always compare it to, we've all gone to high school and there were kids in high school will tell you they're the coolest, and I guarantee you the person who said they were cool is a thousand percent not cool.

[00:18:18] Bill: So I apply that same metric to brand marketing. You don't need to tell people you're the best. Other people get to decide that. You don't have to tell people you're good at what you do. They get to decide that. But what you can do is give first, showcase your expertise through meaningful ways, whether it's brand marketing and awareness, or whether it's a blog or a podcast or whatever.

[00:18:41] Bill: Then you can have direct marketing. I always tell my clients, you know, when they struggle with, well, what? What are the results gonna be? I wish. That your clients would say, I am buying from you because I saw that particular piece of content. Or advertising life doesn't work that way. There are things that have metrics.

[00:18:57] Bill: We have a specific offer. We're driving them to a specific website or asking them to email. They're gonna click here and we can measure those things. But a lot of marketing and branding sometimes is, wow, this feels different. This feels good. And that's the brand marketing. Right. I feel like we're getting more activity, can't really assign anything to it, but we're getting, we're quoting a lot more of these widgets over here, or that service over there.

[00:19:20] Joelly: I love that because, like you said, especially on social media about giving value, you're right. You don't have to tell people you're an expert. All you have to do is go out there, give value. You know, I do my badass branding tips every Tuesday, just like you. Mm-hmm. I'm consistent and even on the days where I don't feel like doing it right. Committed to it. And I try to, you know, just give one tip that's gonna help somebody out there. And I just do it because I wanna help people that's in me. And I think through doing that, you're absolutely right. I've had people reach out to me and wanna learn more and get more information. Um, so the more you give, the more you get.

[00:19:53] Bill: Yeah. 

[00:19:54] Joelly: I love that. I love that so much. Thank you for sharing that. So going back and talking about target marketing for a second, Kirby, I know you have an acronym. Can you elaborate on what the acronym acronym is? What it stands for? 

[00:20:05] Kirby: Yeah. Yeah. Actually this is kind of new. We've, we've been working on this, so, uh, target, like you said, is an acronym.

[00:20:11] Kirby: Uh, T stands for Target. We call it Targe in Canada, by the way. Well, I, I'll work, I'll work on the, no, we, we used to talk about the store.

[00:20:17] Joelly: We're like, oh, I'm just gonna go to Target, but it's no longer here, so, so Target. 

[00:20:23] Kirby: So the first T stands for target, identify your perfect customer. Bill and I talk a lot about this.

[00:20:27] Kirby: People will say, Hey, I wanna do this, I wanna do this. And it's like, for who? Who's the customer? What, what are you trying to do? Because when you identify that perfect customer, that perfect prospect, you change your, your messaging, you change, you know who, what platforms you're gonna be on based on exactly who you're trying to market to.

[00:20:45] Kirby: A stands for attract. Build your list. I think that so many of our, you know, we're so used to renting media, right? We're, we're used to paying other people for access to their audience. And I think it's really important to build your own, I mean, you have an audience who listen to this podcast, and so the best marketing plans create a way that you get to communicate to them directly if Facebook changes their algorithm.

[00:21:07] Kirby: Then a lot of businesses. I remember a couple years ago, Facebook and Instagram went down for like six hours and half the internet lost their shit because they lost their whole audience. Right? And so I think it's important to build the list, and that's what a said. How do you do that? How do you, so I think, uh, so lead magnets are a big place to do that, where you provide something of exceptional value that somebody's willing to give their email for, because once you give your email address, you know that people are gonna market to you.

[00:21:32] Kirby: And so it's gotta be something that really adds value. And that's why the teas really important, because you want to mm-hmm. Make it specific to the audience that you're trying to serve. Addresses a specific pain point for them. So then you, you build that list. R stands for reach. So reach across platforms, build your reach.

[00:21:48] Kirby: We've talked about giving value and put yourself out there. Reach is the one in my mind that we get the voice yelling at us. You know, we've all got that voice that tells us we're not good enough. We're not smart enough, and doggone at people don't like us. We have to fight through that. We have to be willing to put ourselves out there to do a podcast every week to do the, the branding.

[00:22:05] Kirby: Tip G is for go get it. It's time to sell. E is for enthusiasm. Build your enthusiastic brand ambassadors, and then the final tease for track, because there's specific activities that we do every week that actually drive our results, but it's, it's remarkable how if you meet with marketers or entrepreneurs or whoever and you ask them what they are.

[00:22:25] Kirby: Many don't know what they are specifically and most are not tracking them. And so then how can you have consistent results? Right? So that's sort of what Target stands for. I love that. Thank you for sharing that. Thank So, there's a great stat out there that I heard somebody say years ago they said that 50% of your marketing is working.

[00:22:40] Kirby: The problem is you don't know which 50%. Yeah. Right, right. And so this helps kind of narrow that down, I think. 

[00:22:47] Joelly: Yeah, I love that. That's so great. Okay, so. I have two more questions. Cool. I wanna, you know, we were, I think the three of us are pretty passionate about branding and I've heard you also talk about your Mount Rushmore of brands.

[00:23:00] Joelly: Mm-hmm. So I'll ask each of you individually, I'll start with you, Kirby. What brands would you say, you can just list one or two right now that are out there that are really hitting it outta the ballpark and are on your Mount Rushmore of brands and why are they there?

[00:23:14] Kirby: Yeah. You know, I think this is one of those questions that sort of evolves, but yet I end up coming back to the same ones.

[00:23:20] Kirby: I'll give you two. Yeah. Two is good. Yeah. So Apple think they continue to innovate. They continue to be a specific, like when I think of Apple, they have a brand. The other one's Nike. Uh, 

[00:23:29] Joelly: But why? Hold on. But why? 

[00:23:30] Kirby: Why Apple? Uh, just because I, when I think of them, I have a specific story in my mind when I think of Apple, right?

[00:23:39] Kirby: I think of innovation, I think of quality. I, and honestly, I like the cool kids in business. They carry a brand, and that's what I was, that's what I was about to say with Nike, same thing. I actually heard, I, I, again, I give credit. I wanna say it was Seth Godin who said this. He said, if Nike did a hotel, Well, that what my podcast Exactly.

[00:23:56] Kirby: Yeah. Yeah. You would know exactly what he would, what it would look like. Right. Because they have a real brand. Like I can literally picture it. Um, and I think that Apple has that same thing. It's like if they come out with a, the new vr, it's like, okay, yeah, it, it's gonna be expensive and it's gonna be super cool, and they're gonna think of ways that it's gonna integrate with all the other stuff that they do.

[00:24:17] Kirby: Right. They have a brand. And so that's what I would say is Nike and Apple are the ones that pop into my head. Yeah. The moment you ask that question. 

[00:24:23] Joelly: Okay, cool. And you, Mr. William. 

[00:24:25] Bill: Does anybody call you William? Yeah, at least, uh, only when I'm in trouble. Um, but lemme ex, lemme explain why Kirby's wrong. Um, no, I, I don't, I, here's where I, it's not Nike that, that's one of the brands that's killing it.

[00:24:38] Bill: It's the sub-brand Jordan. That's killing it for me. Mm-hmm. When I think of, of the Mount Rushmore, I'd actually, I think without Jordan, Nike is just another shoe company. They've aligned themselves in a good way so much with Michael Jordan, who is an American basketball player for the Chicago polls. For those of you don't know, um, and 

[00:24:56] Joelly: NBA stands for 

[00:24:59] Bill: the National Basketball Association.

[00:25:01] Bill: Uh, but I think the Jordan brand, so Nike, yes, but I really think it's that Jordan brand. Another brand that I think absolutely kills it all the time is Red Bull. And this is how I classify like a Mount Rushmore brand. When I think of the product, if I think of the brand of it as opposed to an energy drink, I never say, and I don't drink 'em anyway.

[00:25:21] Bill: But if I was ever gonna get an energy drink, I would say I would like an energy drink, please. I'd say, do you have a Red Bull? Yeah, it's, it's like Kleenex. It's like aspirin, which was trademarked by Bayer Corporation in 1890 something. I don't think of motorcycles. I think of Harley Davidson. I don't think of soda pop.

[00:25:36] Bill: I think of Coke and I always look at it from a consistency standpoint, and I think Kirby does as well. Long haul lifestyle brands. Brands that just become ingrained, so woven into the mag magic tapestry of society. The brand becomes the product. 

[00:25:51] Joelly: I totally agree. I mean, I was gonna say that about Kleenex. I don't think it's very often or ever anyone says, pass me a tissue. It's always Right. Kleenex that is a strong brand because it's become part of our vernacular. 

[00:26:03] Kirby: Partly. Davidson's actually a really good one, and I think of which are the ones that I see tattooed on people. Yeah, right. You talk about enthusiastic brand ambassadors. Yeah. People who are willing 

[00:26:12] Bill: to Jack Daniels, Jack Daniel.

[00:26:13] Joelly: Yeah. So with that said, I love this because we're all brands. If you have a business, you have a brand. And that was my motivation for starting my Branding Matters podcast is because I think so many people out there will start a business and just be very focused on the business and not really understanding that, okay, you're also need to make sure you have a strong brand.

[00:26:34] Joelly: So people choose you first in your category. Choosing you first in your category is what's gonna set you apart. Okay. Last question. I know I said I had two more, but I have to ask this cuz I asked. All my guests. This question I'll ask you Kirby first, what is your badass superpower? 

[00:26:48] Kirby: That's a good one. What is my badass superpower? I think, I think probably if I have one, it's, it's, uh, the discipline to show up every day. I think that the, sorry Bill, I took yours. Uh, so, but I, I think that that's fairly true of both of us. It's one of the reasons I think we jive. So we do a podcast. He talked about the, the, the idea of, you know, he's got a Monday blog.

[00:27:07] Kirby: I've got a Monday Minute, comes out every Monday, right? Our podcast drops. Every Friday, it does not matter what, you know, what it falls on. And if we both didn't have that, then we would've never kept going together because it's hard to do a podcast and you know, this Joey with somebody else as a guest because they don't always value the time.

[00:27:26] Kirby: Like you value the time because you know, you have a, this coming up. There's no way we could have kept this going if we both, both didn't have sort of the superpower of discipline to keep showing up whether we feel like it or not, there's people way smarter, way more talented. Way more good looking, whatever. I just keep showing up. And so that, to me, that's the good, that would be what I would say. 

[00:27:45] Joelly: That's a good, so he stole yours now, bill, what are you gonna pick? You have that time to think so 

[00:27:49] Bill: I, yeah, that's right. I would just like to say that I find Kirby has be a strikingly handsome man. Absolutely. 

[00:27:58] Kirby: Blue is your color by the way.

[00:27:59] Bill: Oh thanks. I appreciate that. He's both sophisticated and elegant and what he didn't mention is he also has a strength of 10 men and cat-like Ninja Quickness. He's very modest. Uh, so my superpower besides Smart Assery is in, in the work world, I. I'm a very quick study and I understand people's brands very, very quickly.

[00:28:20] Bill: I can get a very quick read on not only what a brand is, but what it needs to be to elevate and it's a gift. I don't know how I have it, it's not something I went to school for. I think I've just hardwired that way and it's not something I, I'm 53. I didn't learn. I had that superpower until about 10 years ago.

[00:28:38] Bill: Um, and it's served me well and it sounds a little braggadocious and that's not my intent. Um, you asked the question I'm answering of, of course, course. That's honestly what I think my superpower is. I can get into a company's brand, get a lot of communication, a lot of back and forth, and execute a plan that will help them elevate.

[00:28:55] Bill: Is it always work? No, but most of the time, vast majority of time it does. So I think that's my superpower along with Kirby. I, I, uh, no one will ever outwork me and no one will ever out care me. 

[00:29:06] Joelly: I love that. And you know, I think it's, it's not braggadocious and I think it's really, that's why I love asking this question, because I think it's really important to know what your superpower is and tap into that, because that mm-hmm. Is what makes you different and that's what helps you succeed. 

[00:29:19] Bill: And so, so I'd like to, if I could add something I'd like to add, I'll tell you what Kirby's superpower really is. It's kindness. You will not find a kinder. Gentler, more lovely human being on the planet than Kirby Hasseman. He is giving of his time freely. He cares about helping everyone. I am a better person personally for Kirby. I'm a better person professionally because of Kirby. That's his superpower. 

[00:29:45] Kirby: Wow. I, I think, think that he is just trying to butter me up to give him a compliment and it's just not gonna work.

[00:29:50] Bill: I'm trying to, damn it

[00:29:53] Joelly: Oh, you guys are great.What a great way to end this amazing conversation. You guys have been fantastic, so thank you so much. So people wanna learn more about you. We'll do individually. First, Bill, how can people find you? Where are you on social?

[00:30:07] Bill: I think the best place to find me is probably my company website, which is brand of eight, spelled just like you think it would be.

[00:30:15] Bill: Would love to connect with any of your listeners and I'll say what I'm sure Kirby gonna say. Thank you for having us on here. Uh, I've enjoyed it. I've had a great time. 

[00:30:23] Joelly: You’re so sweet. Well, thank you. I really appreciate it. And Kirby, what about you? How can people get ahold of you and connect with you?

[00:30:29] Kirby: Yeah, I mean, my website is It's one of the places where you can grab that target marketing playbook. And then I'm on all of the social medias. And the good, good thing about having Kirby Hasseman as a name, I don't have to be real cute, it's just at Kirby Hasseman on all of the platforms.

[00:30:45] Joelly: Right. And then Promo UpFront, it launches every Friday, is that right? 

[00:30:49] Bill: Yes, Every Friday. Every Friday at eight o'clock Eastern standard time. 

[00:30:53] Joelly: Amazing. Well, you guys, like I said, it's been so much fun. Do you have any closing words before we say goodbye?

[00:30:58] Bill: Yeah, a rising tide lives all boats. And so I love doing this podcast. Hopefully get people, got some great tips and help and information and I just love what you're doing, so thank you for allowing us to be a little part of it. Oh, it was so fun. 

[00:31:12] Kirby: Thank you. And echo what, echo, what, what Bill said Joelly is, uh, I just absolutely love what you're doing. I think it's really hard to put yourself out there on a consistent basis.You are doing it, you're killing it, and I just love the intellect and confidence that you're doing it with. 

[00:31:25] Bill: So thanks for letting us be a part. And you do it and you do it solo. Let's not, let's not gloss over that. You do it by yourself. You do a guest driven podcast by yourself, Kirby, and I have the other yuck monkey to always do it with. You do it by yourself. That's not easy. That takes courage, guts, and grit. So hats off to you. 

[00:31:43] Joelly: Well, thank you. It's a lot of fun and I mean, my guests really run the show. I just ask the questions, so it's, it's a lot of fun just like having you both on. So group hug, you guys are amazing. I can't wait to meet you in person hopefully soon. And we'll definitely stay in touch. All right, thanks. Okay, thank you. Bye.

[00:32:02] Joelly: And there you have it. Thank you so much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed the conversation and hopefully you've learned a few things to help you with your branding. This show is a work in progress, so please remember to rate and review on whatever platform you listen to podcast. And if you want help creating brand awareness for your business, send me a private message and I would love to help you out.

[00:32:21] Joelly: You can find me anywhere on social under you guessed it. Branding Badass. Branding Matters was produced, edited, and hosted by Joelly Goodson, also me. So thanks again, and until next time. Here's to all you bad asses out there.