How to Launch Your Second Successful Career with Tara McCool & Dave Kelly

In this episode of Branding Matters, I sit down with 2 people I used to watch every morning on TV. They are Dave Kelly & Tara McCool, and the shows I’m referring are ‘The Big Breakfast’ and ‘Breakfast Television’.

Today Tara is the Chief People Officer at Foundation Auto. She’s also the co-host of Calgary Next - a popular podcast that discusses the exciting and forward-looking programs and initiatives in Calgary.

Dave is a writer, producer, MC and the co-founder of Kelly Brothers Productions - a content company specializing in video and live events. He’s also the host of “Dave Kelly Live,” a live talk show that features many of Canada's most notable performers, athletes, and personalities.

I invited Tara & Dave to be guests together because I though it would be fun to have a little reunion. And let’s just say I was not disappointed! I was curious to hear what they've been up to since they left the limelight. And I wanted to get their POV on personal branding and if they had to change their own personal brands as they changed careers.

𝗕𝗿𝗮𝗻𝗱𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗠𝗮𝘁𝘁𝗲𝗿𝘀 𝗶𝘀 𝗯𝗿𝗼𝘂𝗴𝗵𝘁 𝘁𝗼 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗯𝘆 𝗚𝗲𝗻𝘂𝗺𝗮𝗿𝗸 - 𝗢𝗻𝗲 𝗼𝗳 𝗡𝗼𝗿𝘁𝗵 𝗔𝗺𝗲𝗿𝗶𝗰𝗮’𝘀 𝗺𝗼𝘀𝘁 𝘁𝗿𝘂𝘀𝘁𝗲𝗱 𝗺𝗲𝗿𝗰𝗵 𝗺𝗮𝗸𝗲𝗿𝘀 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝗼𝘃𝗲𝗿 𝟰𝟬 𝘆𝗲𝗮𝗿𝘀.
From promotional products, custom uniforms, and clothing, to sports co-branding, web stores and warehousing - Genumark is your #1 partner for creating brand awareness. And being ISO certified – you can rest assured ethical sourcing and sustainability are front and centre. If you’re looking for help  with your next project, email brandingmatters@genumark.com

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Hey there, I'm Joelly - the Branding Badass. My badass superpower is helping you build a brand that matters. From branded merch to brand consulting, when you work with me, you get results!

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Transcript

Joelly Goodson : 0:10

Hi, I'm Joelly your Branding Badass. And welcome to Branding Matters - a podcast I created and host to help you create brand equity. Today I have two very special guests, two people that I used to watch every morning when I first moved to Calgary back in the 90s and they are Dave Kelly and Tara McCool. The shows I'm referring to are the Big Breakfast and Breakfast Television. Today Tara is the Chief People Officer at foundation Otto. And she's also the co-host of Calgary Next, a popular podcast that discusses the exciting and forward looking programs and initiatives around Calgary. Dave is a writer, producer MC and the co founder of Kelly Brothers Productions, a content company specializing in video and live events. I invited Tara Dave to be guest today, because I thought it would be so fun to have a little reunion. And let's just say, I was not disappointed. I was curious to hear what they've been up to since they left the limelight. And I wanted to get their point of view on personal branding and if they felt they had to change theirs at all as they changed their careers. Branding Matters is brought to you by Genumark - one of North America's most trusted branded merch makers for over 40 years. Did you know branded merchandise is one of the best ways to create brand awareness. It's true! Whether with your team or your fans, there's no better way to show your appreciation, connect with your audience and build community than by combining thoughtful design with great products that tell your brand story. When you partner with Genumark you get more. More personaliased service, more creativity, more innovative solutions. And more importantly, you get it all from a talented team of branding experts who have the experience and know how to make your job easier and more fun. From promotional products, custom uniforms and clothing to sports co branding, web stores and warehouses. Genumark makes it happen. And being ISO certified, you can rest assured, knowing ethical sourcing and sustainability are front and center. Genumark is big enough to matter, but small enough to care. So if you're looking for the right partner to help you create brand awareness, email BrandinMatters@Genumark.com. That's Branding Matters at G E N U M A R K.com. And now on with our show, Tara and Dave, I'm so excited to have you here. Welcome to Branding Matters!

Dave Kelly: 2:38

Whoo. Right Tara I get to hang out with Tara McCool. I'll take any reason and then I get to hang out with you too is even better.

Joelly Goodson : 2:47

I like the way just slid that one in. Thank you. I appreciate that.

Tara McCool: 2:50

He's a master. He's a master.

Joelly Goodson : 2:52

I know. Well, this is so great. I love that you guys are here. You know it's interesting how this has all come together. So Dave and I we don't actually know each other but I was referred to from a very really good friend of mine, Dr. April Elliot, and she was on one of your shows. And she raved about you how fine you were and how funny you were. And she's like you have to get deals on your podcast. And then Tara you and I've run into a couple times I think we mentioned stampede this summer was the last time that one of those. And I just sort of in the back of my mind I was thinking you know, wouldn't it be fun to have them on together as written? And have you guys ever generated and by the way since you left the air I know you Dave's been on your podcast here but have you guys ever done a reunion together?

Dave Kelly: 3:32

When you say reunion like we've we've hung out a bunch but I don't know if we've done

Joelly Goodson : 3:36

like publicly like done something like this where you've aired been on a show together or podcast together or anything.

Dave Kelly: 3:42

I don't know, Tara, how have we done anything?

Tara McCool: 3:44

Like I don't think we have no

Dave Kelly: 3:46

we've gotdrunk in restaurants is that count?

Joelly Goodson : 3:48

Well, you know, it depends who was watching and who was filming. Okay, so I want to go back to the very beginning because like I said that you guys when I first moved to Calgary, I turned on the TV every month every morning and I would watch you together and your chemistry was off the charts. And I'm sure I'm not the only one that told you guys. You've had great chemistry. Do you remember the first time you met was it on the show?

Tara McCool: 4:09

My memory is the very first time when we first launched a channel in 1997. I was doing live at five and Dave was hosting the big breakfast. And we all met on the roof of the building to take a picture for the Calgary sun. And that was the very first time that I met Dave Kelly and and then it's just been pure love ever since I

Joelly Goodson : 4:35

was a love at first sight. Well, you know, he

Unknown: 4:38

just Dave has a real presence. Right? So I knew we did have a good connection right at the very beginning but it was we never really got to work together until I started on BTS. But yeah, I'd say we we definitely had a good connection right from the get go. That's my interpretation, Dave?

Joelly Goodson : 4:57

Dave,

Dave Kelly: 4:58

it was nothing like that. You know my memory. It's funny, I remember going remember we all had to take a picture on some field with the Hummer. The remember back in the days when Hummers were cool as far as the vehicles to show how we were new and hip and whatever. And we had a photo shoot. But yeah, Tara because it's a weird thing was like we're shiftworkers was like those things on Bugs Bunny or like, hello, Ralph morning bill where we cross paths, because she was on a different show than I were. And then I was, and I would be there at whatever it was five in the morning, and she wouldn't come in till our shift was ending. But then when we did get to do btw, together is when we really got to do like, I mean, we always fun and we always laughed a bunch, because both of us took our jobs seriously, but also enjoyed a good laugh. So we would spend if we were ever in the same room, we'd be laughing. But then when we got to work together, that's when we really realized what we could do. And I remember that first week, where we actually were working together was so fun, because we realized, oh, my gosh, how what a ride we were gonna have.

Joelly Goodson : 6:01

Yeah, that's amazing. So eight years, you were together?

Tara McCool: 6:04

Does that sound right? I think so.

Joelly Goodson : 6:06

I did a little bit of research. So

Dave Kelly: 6:09

got it. Right. Yeah,

Joelly Goodson : 6:10

I think it was eight years. And so Tara, I've heard you say that working with Dave, it was almost like you were the same person. What do you mean by that, like, people would stop you? Can you share with us that?

Unknown: 6:21

Oh, my I don't remember saying that. You know, I think the thing is that Dave and I both had the same objective with the show, which was to make the guests feel as comfortable as possible, before and during the show. And so that was always our goal. And we wanted to make everybody feel like a community and have everybody feels successful, whether it was the crew, or whether it was each other, or the guest. That's what I really do feel like we were really aligned that way. So our goal was always the same. And so we would try to push each other that way. But we but we have different approaches. I mean, we're not really the same person. I think that we thought a lot, the same ways in terms of, you know, the values that we both had coming into the show, but different perspectives and, you know, entirely different views on some things. And that's where it really made us work.

Dave Kelly: 7:27

Yeah, that's a great point, Tara about the value. Because here, we would often have to, we'd often talk to the staff, we did the show every day. So you go in every morning, you do get the interviews ready, you do the interviews, and do the show, and then get up the next day. But for all those people coming into the show, it was their one and only time or their once a year time or whatever that would be. So we'd have to keep reminding everybody that for us, it's Tuesday. But for a guest, this is the thing, and I'd say this is whatever they show up wearing. That's the third thing they've put on. And they were up all night going, what if my alarm doesn't go off? And where am I going to park? And I gotta make sure I say and what if I and so Tara and I think both shared the sense that the best we're going to get from anyone on the show is if they feel relaxed and comfortable. And that means understanding what they're bringing, making it a big deal for them, because it was a big deal for them and making sure they knew that we knew them. And so we would do a lot of work before they even showed up to be sure they felt at home and comfortable. Not that I would like we would do harder interviews, but that our prep was to make them relax. And so that was something we both loved doing. And therefore our show and the guests always felt comfortable at home and ready to talk about whatever.

Unknown: 8:44

Yeah, it's true. And we had such different approaches. Right? I mean, Dave is an excellent storyteller and cracks jokes and makes uncomfortable situations comfortable with making us laugh. And I had more of a mom approach and would try to you know, make people feel comfortable by really caring and I mean, Dave cared as well. We just we showed it different ways. But Dave had has a real gift continues to have a real gift with making the person he's with Shine. Yeah, and I really felt that when I worked with Dave I felt like he always had my back and tried to make me look good. And tried to make the guests look good. And that's a real co host.

Joelly Goodson : 9:28

So here's a funny story for you Dave. You probably don't even remember this. So Tara, I think you and I talked about this. I was actually a guest on your show you saying all that I'm like it's so true. It was so my son is just turned actually is going to be 19 in January so he was four months old. And it came on it was some mom and baby fitness thing. I don't even know if you remember it's like this, how long it was and I had to get up and I my son was four months old. So you know I still had the baby weight and I was doing this showing how to do To exercise with your newborn baby or infant baby on the show, and I was so nervous. Do you remember that you can humor me?

Dave Kelly: 10:09

Did Tara actually do it? Because in my head, that would have been a Toram moment or was it? I did it with you?

Joelly Goodson : 10:15

No, no, no, you both were hosting. And I came on and a couple of people and it was a segment was just about moms how to get back in shape after you've had a baby. And my son was I remember he was four months old. And Tara, I remember anyway, I when I saw you, I talked to you about that. So. So I totally agree with everything you just said. Because you did you always so nervous. And you were you guys were both amazing.

Dave Kelly: 10:36

That makes me happier than anyone who says, like Tara and I would be the same if somebody said, Oh, that felt so good. Thanks for making me feel so comfortable. Yeah, that would matter more to either of us than any other part of it. So I think, and I do think that's how you get good interviews out of people anyway, it wasn't wasn't self serving. We weren't doing it just for the show. We were doing that because that's the way we are. Yeah. But it also made a huge difference with so many people, especially if they like authors who are on a book tour, that have done every Breakfast Show across the country. And they were like number 12 in their list. They would always go this one was so different. And that would that would excite Tara and I more than anything else would.

Joelly Goodson : 11:15

Oh, I totally agree. You know, it's the same thing to with my podcasts. The best compliment is when people are done. And they say that was so fun, you know, which is my whole goal is to make people relax and make it fun and not boring. So yeah, I totally agree with you. So then fast forward. So you guys, we're together and huge success. And then the show ended. Were you sad when it ended?

Dave Kelly: 11:35

Yeah. I mean, I was sad that it ended it was also a sign of the industry and tar you left a little earlier than I did. But then you could just tell that the world was changing. And the industry was changing. So it was we I think we left at a good time to leave. But it was still sad when it ended.

Joelly Goodson : 11:53

Yeah. So then when it ended, how come neither of you decided to continue in the broadcast on stay on TV or stay in that industry? Because you both might very different directions,

Dave Kelly: 12:06

because there's no industry was my reason like it wasn't like there was a bunch of other TV jobs or a bunch of other TV projects broadcast our bread and butter. And I say this people all the time, our bread and butter on breakfast shows and any morning show was this way is people would tune in to find whether in traffic, and then we would keep them there by our show. Well, who on the planet turns on their TV to find out the weather anymore? Nobody who turns on their TV to find the traffic? Nobody. So the viewership in morning shows went from big numbers to know numbers. So there's no work anymore. There's nowhere to go every reporter that Tara and I know that was on the show with us if they stayed in Alberta, none of them are working in TV because there's there's nowhere to work.

Joelly Goodson : 12:55

Is that just Alberta though? Or is that? I mean, was there an opportunity? Maybe an all across Canada?

Dave Kelly: 13:00

Yeah. Wouldn't you say Tara? Like if you look around at any, like right now I was talking to a buddy at CBC. Every show on CBC television is directed and the control room is out of Toronto, so no station anywhere, has their own control room anymore has their own directors anymore. So it's all these tiny little pods of three people trying to put on a TV show when we were doing it, there was 15 of us and we had a budget and we had people go out and shoot things. There's none of that anymore.

Unknown: 13:32

Yeah. And and when I left, I didn't know if that was going to be the end of my TV career. It's not like I said, I'm leaving the industry. I actually did have quite good opportunities out of Toronto at that time. But I didn't I didn't want to move to Toronto, by the way, they weren't for news. They were more like talk show lifestyle show types of opportunities, which is kind of where most things have gone the TLCS or the W network type of shows that people can produce and they're evergreen, and they produce them and run them year after year after year. But I agree with Dave, I just think that everything has changed so much that if you want to be in broadcasting television, if it's news television is is a hard place to be right now.

Joelly Goodson : 14:18

Definitely talking about broadcasting and news. I want to talk about news a little bit because I think that in itself has changed a lot right? I mean, the whole fake news idea I'm curious to get your point of view on the news and how it's changed since you left and what you think of it today.

Dave Kelly: 14:34

Yeah, I just think it's a complete dollars and cents situation and people say well, the news is better the news is worse the news is whatever journalism is great journalism is dead. The problem with all of it is money but even the Lisa Laflamme story this summer where she was let go for you know there was there sexism there was there ageism there what was going on with that but what nobody wanted to touch on was I am sure they had zero money in their bank. And she was expensive. And they said, Well, this is a way to save money because there's no money in it. So I think that when Tara and I were doing TV, there was we had a reporter there was what for TV stations, to newspapers. So there were six people in all of that group, whose job it was to follow the politics to follow what's going on with the city. And what's going on in the province. We had beat reporters who would go to City Hall every day and sit in the meetings and listen, and watch. That doesn't exist anywhere in any city anymore, because there's no money to hire that. So therefore, what is your news? Your News is either big places that have big budgets, or it doesn't exist, or the news is whatever somebody happens to catch on on their iPhone, so therefore, the news is changed. And people say, Well, it's because people don't care. It's because people don't pay. There's zero money in that whole game. So it is in this huge transition, where then the news that so everyone's desperate, no one has a budget. So what's going to, you got to think what's going to get our viewers is crazy, or mad or batshit? You know, we would do a whole newscast. And then at the end of the newscast there, you'd save it for the crazy story, or the chipmunk that did the stupid whatever that was. And now the whole news is that because it's the only way you're basically repeating words, I was talking to this buddy of mine was I was talking about viewership. So there's a news. I don't want to say any names because it's maybe not fair CBC, but it doesn't matter. It could be anything. It totally doesn't matter. Their daily like the their version of the CNN, you know, their news net show, on any given time in the day their viewership across the country. 15,000 people 50,000 God, really? How are you? Like, there's no way so how much money are they going to spend on that? Nothing, how much money they're going to spend hiring a Francis selvaggio to go out and really dig into a story right there. They can't, they have no money for it. So they don't. So therefore, if you somebody sends in a crazy story, or if somebody's really mad, or there's a massive protest, it doesn't matter if it's if it's angry and noisy, they'll cover it because they think and how are we going to get people to watch. So I think the money is underneath everything because there is no money in broadcast anymore.

Unknown: 17:24

Yeah, I agree with that. 100% Every things about money, everything about money in today's day. And so I agree that I find that to day, what the news is, is just montage of headlines that are scary, that are forever polarizing. I find that to Dave's point, there's not a whole lot of investigative journalism anymore, especially on a local level, you know, to really dig into a story to find out what's actually happening behind the headlines isn't happening anymore. So people read the headlines. And they don't actually get context for what that story is. And that to me is very frustrating, because we used to have fabulous reporters at all of the stations in Calgary. And that just lost art now. And I do find that it's also really unfortunate that now either you go to CNN, or you go to Fox News, and I'm talking to the States right now, but it's either your left or your right not. And that's who you're going to listen to. And that's all you're bombarded with the information. Because if I don't support what CNN saying, then I'm not watching them. So I'm gonna watch Fox, or whatever. Why can't we have real conversations about very serious topics that are going on in this country and listen to other perspectives and provide the information about other perspectives and learn to understand each other's perspectives, instead of just canceling and hating? Yeah, I totally agree, that I find has fueled a lot of the division.

Joelly Goodson : 19:05

And what about the whole concept, especially with news? I mean, there's so much bias now, like you said, either you watch this channel and you're for this or you watch that channel and what they say is all that matters whether or not it's is it truth, or is it not truth doesn't matter. It's their truth, right? You hear that all the time. Like, it's my truth,

Unknown: 19:22

but that shouldn't be the case. And our on our show, we were able, because we were not a pure news station, we were able to provide opinions, but a real journalist and investigative journalist looks at both sides. And I don't see that happening a lot and allowing the viewer or the listener to decide how they feel about it on their own.

Joelly Goodson : 19:42

Yeah, I agree. So so either of you guys. Sorry, what were you gonna say?

Dave Kelly: 19:45

So it kills me. People say, well, are you more of a say a CBC person or a global? Like that argument doesn't exist anymore because no one's watching any of them. So even that people say, journalism, you know, you don't see a good story on the news anymore. And then I say When's the last time you've actually watched the news? And I'm like, Well, that's because we don't we'll just scroll through our phone and find the feed that exciting or it's funny, or they talk about a massive protest and really wasn't massive. I don't know. Was it a big deal? I don't know. Because it's just happens to be what people look at.

Joelly Goodson : 20:17

I feel like right now, people are just tuning out. That's the decision they've made in what I can't do anymore. I don't want to watch all the negativity or all the I don't know what's true. And no, they just say, Yeah, I know for sure. It's gonna be interesting to see where things are gonna go. My kids don't watch TV. I have two teenagers, right? They don't watch TV. Everything is on YouTube and on their computer. So be interesting to see. Okay, so let's move on. I want to talk now. But that was the past. And so now you both went on different careers. You broke up. Do people ever think you were a couple, by the way?

Dave Kelly: 20:53

Yeah. I love that. It always would make me laugh, but it wasn't ever the case. Yeah. Tara, Tara tried. She hit on me. I mean, Kevin hit on me. Her husband is a former hockey player, so he could tie me in a little pretzel if you want.

Unknown: 21:10

And boy, I'm pretty sure could take Jean

Joelly Goodson : 21:17

I love it. That's so funny. So you both. Okay, so you both laughed. You were sad. You decided to go your separate ways. So Tara, you went into you got in the corporate world world for a while you were there for several years. And then you left the corporate world. And then you went and did your own thing and had your own consultancy for a while. And then you went back to the corporate world. And now you're the CPO at foundation auto. Tell me about that journey, how you went back and forth and why you made the decisions you made.

Unknown: 21:44

You know, my life has been really kind of have an unorthodox journey of how I've gotten to where I've where we although really, oh, yeah, you're right. You're right. And especially now, I mean, people just are seldom in a job for a long time. So, you know, I loved I loved television. I loved the people I worked with. I loved working live television, I really did. It was just the circumstances. And like I said, I didn't intend to leave the industry. It just happened that way. I had a very small stint with the pay per view on the Calgary Flames and I was awful. I was, well, I thought it was more like doing kind of lifestyle stories with the with the team and you know, getting to see them outside of hockey. And next thing I know, I'm like doing intermission interviews with hockey players and standing on the bench with the players. Like, I don't know much about this game. But Daryl. So it was it was but a challenge. That's for sure it was but yeah, so I had a very small stint. And then a friend of mine who had been asking me for years, you got to get into the oil industry. You got to get into the oil industry. And I was like, I want to do that. I don't know anything about it and no thanks. And he was actually really good friends with Peter Mackay. Peter Mackay came on our show. Dave, do you remember Peter McKay's friend Dwayne. Dwayne was like really adamant that he wanted to know the questions beforehand, the data and I was like, Yeah, well, we don't really do that. And we're not like a hot seat news station. Gonna be okay. So Dwayne was working for Meg energy at the time. And he so he invited me to go to the premiers dinner with him at the big table. And so went to that table. Little did I know, I was having a job interview, I really did not know, I was asking the dumbest questions about the oil industry. Next thing I know, I was having a meeting with HR. And I stepped into a job and spent 10 years there. And when I left, I said, I really want to start focusing on the things that I loved out of HR, which was leadership development, and talking to people about the importance of being of leadership in corporations. So I did that for a couple years. And then had somebody offered me a job that I thought, you know, I don't think I could write a better job description for myself from foundation auto. And now I'm the chief people officer there. So it's been great because I'm able to use all of the skills that I've learned through television through the oil industry, working with engineers, and everything I learned, I learned a ton. What was the biggest challenge for you? Would you say? Well, it was interesting, because when I first started at mag, I was creating videos and people were having fun, and I was trying to create a really fun culture. And I mean, it's not like I could create a culture. We had a lot of amazing people who were there, they created that culture. And I just piggyback with them. So you know, we were doing lots of fun things and then all of a sudden, in HR. It was very difficult when all of us And I was leading mass termination programs. And my whole role in the way I was viewed was completely different. I went from like fun engaging culture, let's, you know, all come together kind of thing to terminations, I'd walk down the hall and people were worried when I was walking down the hall and am I going to lose my job. And that taught me a lot about the importance of compassion in at every stage of an employee's lifecycle at a company that was hard for me, you know, and also learning corporately, how you do things.

Joelly Goodson : 25:35

So when you started there, I mean, you were known people, pretty much everybody probably knew you as Thermocool on TV, and they used to see you every morning. And so you had a very strong personal brand, right? And you connected with your audience, and everybody knew you. So when you switch roles and got into the corporate world, did you have to? Did you feel you needed to sort of change your personal brand at all? Well,

Unknown: 25:58

I think that a person's personal brand, should be who they really are at their core. And so no, I don't feel that I needed to change anything about my personal brand, because I would hope that I was the same person on TV as I was off TV when I would interact with people. And so I would bring that into all my roles. I am who I am. And I don't feel that people should change depending on what they're doing. If your personal brand has to change, to fit a role. I'm not sure that's the right role for

Joelly Goodson : 26:32

I love that. I totally agree with that. What do you think about that, Dave?

Dave Kelly: 26:35

Well, I think and that's what Tara was always great at was when we were in a commercial, and we were talking to the guest, and then we were on TV talking to the guests, that was the same, there was no sense of her putting on a show. However, it was always just her being her. And that made it genuine, which also allowed other people to relax where it's so you could just see, that's how Tara carries herself everywhere. So therefore, this company is going to have the same luck to have somebody like her that is going to never be Oh, the CEOs around are going to act a certain way. Or oh, the janitors around, I got act a certain way. Tara is the same with everyone. And it's a great, great thing about her.

Joelly Goodson : 27:13

Yeah, but a lot of people do that, though. Do you know do you know people like that, because I know people like that where they change their personality, depending on their environment, and what rules they are. I also have a lot of guests on we talked about about authenticity, and how that is so important. And when you can be authentic, like you were talking about who you are, wherever you are, whether you're on TV, or you're talking to a guest, or you're talking to someone that works with you is making sure that you're always your authentic self. And I think there's a lot of leverage in that. So I love that you said that. Okay, so Dave, now it's your turn, I was I was doing my research, and I was reading on your LinkedIn, I love this, your job description you wrote, your job is to make a topic and person more interesting than ever get an audience more engaged and make a panel conversation more relevant, compelling, and even funnier than you thought it could be. First of all, I love that. And then I want to know how you accomplish that.

Dave Kelly: 28:04

Well, that's kind of what what we were talking about is, is every one of us knows what it's like, at some level, I think of my kids now. So John's gonna is in grade six, and he's just starting to be in test is in grade five, where they're aware of being embarrassed. So they're aware of even things like they don't want me to be my daughter's into dance, and she's dad, at the end of the dance, you're not allowed to come up and say, Oh, that was so great. And give me a hug. I can say well done. And that's all I'm allowed to say because she doesn't want to be embarrassed. But I understand that feeling. I understand the feeling of I don't want to be embarrassed. And I think of every guest that came on the show was the same thing. They just don't want to be they don't want to look stupid, don't let me look stupid is what everybody carries with them in life. So for me, I've just always found my work is best when the other person feels that trust that I'm not going to make him look stupid. Even if we disagree that what we're going to do is I'm going to do everything I can to make them look as good as they can, because that's why we're all here is to be genuine. So it doesn't do me any good to make somebody uncomfortable. So knowing that how a mic goes on, somebody can make them really nervous or where the light hits them can make them really nervous, or the fact that didn't get much sleep and they're not confident in the shirt they chose can make them nervous. So everything I can do, and it works the same for the mechanic who's been on TV for the first time to Ellen DeGeneres at the Saddledome. It's the same. They're just don't want to look stupid, please help me look great. And that's just always what I found works best.

Joelly Goodson : 29:38

But what do you do? Like, can you have some pointers? Like, do you have certain things that you know are in your back pocket that you use to help accomplish all that?

Dave Kelly: 29:44

Yeah, well, you do one of them. Well, you do a bunch of them. But just having researched somebody makes a huge difference. So we Tara and I would do this when you have book authors come on the show. Most people would never read their books because you know, you got 10 books, you're doing 10 interviews. How am I going to do that? But as soon as somebody comes in, before an interview or before anything, if I can show that I actually know them, that just relaxes them. So if I say, so in your book, when you talk about blank, they immediately oh my god, they've read the book, and then they relax. And then I go, Okay, was it How are you? Did you get enough sleep or how you feeling and they go, they actually ask about me. And then I'd say, Now, here's how it's going to work. We're going to sit here, I'll be here, you'll be there. And we're going to go through this. And we'll probably start with this. And it's not even about giving questions, but it's showing them that I know what they're worried about. And then get rid of those worries as much as possible. And I always tell people, I just want you to feel like you're jumping off the cliff. And my job is to just catch you and bring you down to the bottom. So just jump. Don't worry about where it's going. Don't worry about your answers. Don't worry about any of that. Don't worry about going blank, I would say to them. I know at some point in this interview, if I had a really nervous guest, I'd say you're going to go blank, you're going to forget what you're going to say. And I tell them, I will know you're going to do that before you know you're going to do that. So don't worry about it. Just talk and if you run out of brain just stop talking and I'll be there. And once they relax. Then they're like, Okay, this is going to be much easier. It's my alarm going off. I don't know. My alarms going off. Yeah, that's the Yeah, I think that's a big people just want to know that you're thinking about them. No.

Joelly Goodson : 31:23

I love that. K, so you talked about Ellen DeGeneres, I want to I want to go a little bit there for a second. So you were the moderator for her. And you also hosted President Obama. So how did those opportunities come about?

Dave Kelly: 31:35

They came because because of Dave Kelly Live, which was this sort of talk show live theatrical thing I did, I do and did at the time. So we would have big shows and in a theater with an audience. And so the producers or the or the promoters that brought they brought Schwarzenegger and Oprah and all those people up to to Canada to do these speaking tours. And they they come to the show, they're from Calgary, they come to the show, because I knew them and their friends, and they just laughed. And it was just a fun, funny show, where they could see me with a live audience. So they've been trying to get Ellen forever. So they've been trying and trying to try and and their method was is they'd say, you come you do a speech. There's a short q&a, and then you go and Elon said, I don't want to do a speech. And so she kept saying, No, I don't want to do it. I don't want to do a speech. And then they kept bugging her. And finally she said, Okay, I'll come. But only if I don't do a speech. If I just sit, I'll come in, I sit down in his chair, someone chats with me, and they leave and they're like, how the hell are we going to pull that off? So then they did this search in Canada for somebody that would be able to do that. And they found a bunch of the Toronto TV people that sent in tapes to them, but they also knew that I'd done this stuff with Dave Kelly live, I wasn't as say, as known as Ben Mulrooney, or whoever else would have been in there. But because I did TV stuff, but I also did live audience stuff. When I sent in a tape, I just sent in videos of me joking and laughing with Jan Arden and all these people. And they were like, Oh, who's that guy? So that's what got the Calgary job. And then when I did the Calgary gig, then Elena had a good time. And then she said, let's use Dave for the tour. So then that instead of doing a different host, every city, they just had me show up and do all of them. That's amazing.

Joelly Goodson : 33:19

Were you nervous when you met her? Yeah,

Dave Kelly: 33:21

I was I was the first show and Tara and I was I was texting back and forth with her that first one because I was it was nerve racking. It's always nerve racking. I was nervous about this conversation with you. But until it's mine, it's the same thing, right? You just don't wanna it's again, it's no different. You just don't want to look dumb. And so for me with her, what was fun I call this with my team is I say we got to get to the shoulder drop moment, because everybody walks into interviews a bit like, shoulders up. And is this going to work? Is this going to work? And how quickly can you definitely go ha, was gonna be fun. So with Ellen, it was about six or eight minutes in, where she was like, oh, gosh, this is gonna be easy. And then we played that it was fun. So that's the trick is how do you get them? To relax?

Tara McCool: 34:10

Yes. Yeah, shoulder drop moment. I love Oh, I love that Dave. Yeah I love that. You said that too. Because you can actually I've had interviews with people where I've seen that switch with them where they start off sometimes I don't know, but up, they start off, their arms crossed, and you know, and they're talking to you and they're just, you're I'm thinking this is going to be a hard nut to crack. And I had this guest recently, actually. And he was I could tell my goal was gonna be a hard one and then halfway through his whole demeanor, change and, you know, and then end up being great at the end. But you can see when they that turn happens, right? Yeah, I love that. Okay, so then how much longer after that, did Obama come into your life? Or how did that happen?

Unknown: 34:49

Well, that was the same group that that we're working when Obama came. Yeah, what was the this is my story I've told a few times, but I love it. So we were I knew they called and said, Hey, Hey, can you do this one? And I said, Yes, I can. But it happened as the Canadian Tour of Ellen was happening. So we were in Toronto. And we did two shows in Toronto. And one of the things I would do with her was I would do these little rapid fire, you know, are similar, those little quick answer things. And one of the questions was, who's the last celebrity you texted? And it's fun. That's a fun question to ask someone like Elon, because then it's gives them the chance to name drop or whatever. But for the rest of us, we're like, Oh, my God, they're talking to this person that you know, it's just fun. So on this night, the Sunday night, I said, it was a Sunday night in Toronto. I said, So who's your last celebrity? You texted? And she went? Michelle Obama. So the audience goes, ooh, Michelle, you know, they're all excited. And this is like, it's in the whatever the were the leafs play. Huge place. And data center. Yeah. So then she says, Oh, and you know what we were talking that you are going to be interviewing her husband on Tuesday in Calgary, ha ha ha and the honest like, ha, ha, and then we go on to the interview. But in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, I just want to screen capture that because somewhere out there, there is a conversation from Ellen DeGeneres and Michelle Obama, and talking about me interviewing Barack Obama is like, what do what is that world? From me and Tara on the roof at a channel to talk about full circle? So yeah, it was, was pretty great.

Tara McCool: 36:30

You did such a good job with those interviews Dave

Joelly Goodson : 36:34

Yeah. Well, I have to say, you know, you talk about being nervous. I mean, you two are both phenomenal interviewers, and I've seen you interview so many people. So I was nervous today, because I'm like, how do you interview interviewers? Right? You guys have been so gracious and so generous. And so kind

Unknown: 36:52

You're doing a great job, by the way, you're just like, it's just like a conversation, it doesn't feel like an interview and

Joelly Goodson : 36:59

Tell all your friends! Before we go, so I have a lot of entrepreneurs and small business owners that listen to this podcast. And the reason I started is to really help them create brand equity, right with their own businesses and with their personal brands with their corporate brands. So can you each give me or give my audience listeners three tips for someone who has been in your situation a sense that they've been in a career for a long time, and then especially with COVID, because COVID has forced a lot of people to become new entrepreneurs or first time entrepreneurs, what would be if you could think of three words of advice to give somebody who's now having to change careers, what would you suggest would be three tips,

Unknown: 37:39

I would suggest getting really clear on what you want for your life. You know, so not just I want to make a lot of money. What do you want for your life? What is it that you want to see, so get really clear there, and then just go for it, just walk through the door and start because little actions lead to big actions. So I'd say the biggest thing is to just get some clarity on what it is that you really want. And then start to put a plan in action and just start to do it. And it doesn't matter. By the way, if you've never done it before. I have lived that life. A lot of times don't know anything about it. Just go for it. You can learn there are people who can teach you there's Google everything, YouTube lessons on everything. Go with your heart, go just do it.

Joelly Goodson : 38:26

I love that you said that experience because a lot of people I think especially when they get older, they think they're too old and they can't how are they going to learn something new? I think that's a common thing that people feel.

Tara McCool: 38:36

Also don't worry, like Dave said, Right? everybody's scared of looking stupid. What's the worst that can happen? If it fails, it fails, then you learn from it and move on to the next thing. It's just not your world is not going to end. Just try it. You don't want to live with regret.

Dave Kelly: 38:52

Tara's smart, huh?

Joelly Goodson : 38:53

She is beautiful and smart. You're a triple threat.

Tara McCool: 38:58

You are a good interviewer!

Dave Kelly: 39:03

I think that I mean, I'm thinking about Calgary, right now, where there's so much transition, and there's people in their 50s who are losing jobs. And that's, that's hard. In their 40s We're losing jobs. And for those people, it's a different than the 23 year old who says I don't know, I'm gonna try this. And they're all like excited and can try it. But I would say in my in my thoughts. Think about your own shoulders, and what's making you nervous. So the things like money can make people nervous. So let's say you have a relatively decent job now and you want to do this other thing, but you're like, What about money? Or what about whatever it's important to look at yourself and sort of like Otara says, and figure out how you can help your own shoulders to draw so if money is a concern, I say it doesn't do anyone any good to just quit everything. And with no financial plan at all, and then go here we go. Because then you spend all that time that you should be building Your product or advertising or marketing or just growing your business, all you're doing is going How the hell am I going to pay rent next week? Or how am I going to get food? Or how am I? And that stress is really hard. So look at it and go, Okay, so then were like, do I have to work for another six months and really put money away? Whatever those things that make you nervous? Take care of them when you can, because I do think it matters. And then I also think a lot of people have done it. So don't be afraid to ask somebody because if your shoulders are like this, because you're like, I don't even know where to start. Then you phone an entrepreneur and say, can you just I'm thinking that what do you just get other people to help you because they're out there. Anything that can help you just go focus on what you want to do? And then I think about Nemo all the time, the greatest?

Joelly Goodson : 40:49

Did I steal from you?

Dave Kelly: 40:51

But that's part of it. Right? You do have to think that way. Because at a certain point, you think Nemo is dad, those of us that have seen the movie that at a certain point, shit went down, and he had to go and all of us, it doesn't matter what your plan is, shits going to happen, things are going to come up that you didn't plan on that's going to go sideways, and relationships will go sideways or your finances even though it'll happen. And the trick is then to not stop. It's just too easy to stop because you're mad or scared or sad, or I'm mad or scared or sad. So then once you go, just keep swimming, and eventually it'll work out. It's just it's it's easy to use the obstacles. Everything has an obstacle, it's easy to look at whoever an athlete, any big shiny person Elon and think our life has been so easy is none of them. They've all had major obstacles where no one else believed in them. And they had to find their way through. And it's the same for everybody. So when an obstacle hits, it's not an indication that something's wrong. It's an indication that you just gotta keep going.

Joelly Goodson : 41:54

I love that great advice. Just keep swimming. Well, you guys, this has been so fun. Thank you so much for being here today. And I hope that maybe this reunion has sparked something that you're going to do in the future and you can take me anyway, what is the best way for people to get a hold of you if they want to connect with you, Dave? You're on Tik Tok, aren't you? I see you dancing, your hair chimes, dances.

Unknown: 42:19

And your rights? I do. They can just come to my house. Wildwood. So just back out on the front lawn. And we'll have a conversation. No, but I am online. And I yeah, you can find me on my instagram or whatever. But more than anything right now. It's yeah, I'm around and Google me and I'm on Instagram, anywhere you want. We can chat.

Joelly Goodson : 42:39

And you have a Wikipedia page. I was impressed by that. Well, and I you know what people say you should hire a person to fix your Wikipedia pages. And I've said that for years. And I haven't. But it's it's hilarious, because I think there's still somebody I used to do voiceovers for cartoons. And somebody was really into that. And there's a whole section on my Wikipedia page. Least there used to be I haven't looked at it in forever on the eve as the voiceover artists, calm air cartoon, some light And Tara, what about you? Tell us tell people how they can find you. And what's the best way? Are you on social media? Yeah, I'm on LinkedIn. And I have a public and a private Instagram page. So the public one is Tara McCool coaching, if anybody wants to reach out, I'm on Tara McCool coaching on Instagram. Okay, awesome. Well, thank you guys again, do you have any closing words before we sign off?

Dave Kelly: 43:33

Anyone you learn? Sometimes it's worth getting out and trying because when you get out and try, you end up having experiences you never thought you'd have. And my experience was, if I wouldn't have said, Okay, I'll move to Calgary. Okay, I'll try TV. I wouldn't have known Tara McCool. So it's worth it because you get to meet great people.

Unknown: 43:51

I love that. And I'll piggyback on that one. Because I always tell people walk through the door. It doesn't close behind you, you can walk back out. Yeah, just try it.

Joelly Goodson : 44:01

And you know, what I'll take from this is what you talked about as far as being authentic. And both of you, when I saw you on TV, you're authentic. And when I've seen you on public, you're authentic and talking here today. You're the same exactly that. So I love that. That's a great way to end it. So thanks again, you guys. And I hope we'll stay in touch.

Dave Kelly: 44:19

That's great. Thank you.

Tara McCool: 44:20

Absolutely. Thank you, Joelly

Joelly Goodson : 44:28

And there you have it. Thank you so much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed the conversation and maybe learned a few things to help you with your branding. This show is a work in progress. So please remember to rate and review on whatever platform you listen to podcasts. And if you'd like help creating brand awareness for your business, please reach out to me on any of the social platforms Ender. You guessed it, BrandingBadass, I promise you I reply to all my messages. Branding Matters was produced, edited and hosted by Joelly Goodson also me. So thank you again and until next time, here's to all you badasses out there!