How to Create Connections through Humour with Paddy Gilmore

My guest today is Paddy Gilmore - the Founder of Studio Gilmore. Paddy is known around the world as “The Humour Consultant” because he helps brands use humour as a way to become more profitable.

With more than 20 years experience in advertising, and a Master’s degree investigating humour, Paddy has worked with numerous brands including Barclays, Three, Epson and Getty Images just to name a few.

I invited Paddy to be a guest in my show to talk about the role humour plays in branding. I wanted to learn how brands use it to connect with their consumers. And I was curious to get his POV on “cancel culture” and if he thinks it has affected the way humour is used today.

𝗕𝗿𝗮𝗻𝗱𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗠𝗮𝘁𝘁𝗲𝗿𝘀 𝗶𝘀 𝗯𝗿𝗼𝘂𝗴𝗵𝘁 𝘁𝗼 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗯𝘆 𝗚𝗲𝗻𝘂𝗺𝗮𝗿𝗸 - 𝗢𝗻𝗲 𝗼𝗳 𝗡𝗼𝗿𝘁𝗵 𝗔𝗺𝗲𝗿𝗶𝗰𝗮’𝘀 𝗺𝗼𝘀𝘁 𝘁𝗿𝘂𝘀𝘁𝗲𝗱 𝗺𝗲𝗿𝗰𝗵 𝗺𝗮𝗸𝗲𝗿𝘀 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝗼𝘃𝗲𝗿 𝟰𝟬 𝘆𝗲𝗮𝗿𝘀.
From promotional products, custom uniforms, and clothing, to sports co-branding, web stores and warehousing - Genumark is your #1 partner for creating brand awareness. And being ISO certified – you can rest assured ethical sourcing and sustainability are front and centre. If you’re looking for help  with your next project, email brandingmatters@genumark.com

Thanks for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a 5-star rating along with a brief review.

About Me
Hey there, I'm Joelly - the Branding Badass. My badass superpower is helping you build a brand that matters. From branded merch to brand consulting, when you work with me, you get results!

Need help creating brand awareness?
Learn more here BADASS MERCH

Let's stay connected!

instagram - @Branding_Badass
linkedIn - Joelly Goodson
website - BrandingMatters.ca
email - jgoodson@genumark.com

Transcript

Joelly Goodson : 0:10

Hi I'm Joelly, the Branding Badass! Welcome to Branding Matters - a podcast that I created and host to help you create brand equity. Branding Matters is brought to you by Genumark, one of North America's most trusted branded merch makers for over 40 years. Do you know branded merchandise is one of the best ways to create brand awareness? It's true! Whether with your team or your fans, there's no better way to show your appreciation, connect with your audience and build community, than by combining thoughtful design with great products that tell your brand story. When you partner with Genumark you get more! More personalized service, more creativity, more innovative solutions. And more importantly, you get it all from the talented team of branding experts who have the experience and know how to make your job easier and best of all, more fun. From promotional products, custom uniforms and clothing to sports co-branding, web stores and warehousing. Genuimark makes it happen. And Bing ISO certified, you can rest assured knowing ethical sourcing and sustainability are front and center. Genumark is big enough to matter, but small enough to care. So if you're looking for the right partner to help you create brand awareness, email brandingmatters@genumark.com to start your next project today. That's Branding Matters at G.E.N.U.M.A.R.K.com. My guest today is Paddy Gilmore, the founder of Studio Gilmore. Paddy is known around the world as "The Humor Consultant" because he helps brands use humor as a way to become more profitable. With more than 20 years experience in advertising and, get this, a masters degree investigating humor, Paddy has worked with some of the world's most famous brands including Barclays, Three, Epson and Getty Images, just to name a few. I invited Paddy to be a guest on my show today to talk about the role humor plays in branding. I wanted to learn how brands use it to connect with their consumers. And I was curious to hear what he had to say about"cancel culture" and how if any, it has affected humor today, especially in branding. Paddy, I am really excited to have you today because I love humor. So welcome to Branding Matters!

Paddy Gilmore: 2:30

Hello, how are you?

Joelly Goodson : 2:31

I'm great. How are you? Where are you? Actually?

Paddy Gilmore: 2:35

I'm in Guildford, Surrey, which is 50 miles outside of London.

Joelly Goodson : 2:39

I know where Surrey is. I used to live right around there in Richmond.

Paddy Gilmore: 2:41

Oh really?

Joelly Goodson : 2:42

Yeah. Well, I that's so funny. I was actually just talking to someone about sorry, not that long ago after university. I went traveling for two years. And I lived in Richmond in a place called Joe's Bar and Grill. I don't even know if it's still there. It was on the top.

Paddy Gilmore: 2:59

I don't think I've ever been there. But I've heard of it.

Joelly Goodson : 3:02

Okay, and so Surrey is really close. And Mick Jagger had a house there. Does he still have a house ther?

Paddy Gilmore: 3:07

He isn't a neighbor of mine. You know, I might well bump into him you know by buying milk one day.

Joelly Goodson : 3:14

Oh too funny and Twickenham is close by right?

Paddy Gilmore: 3:17

That isn't too far away either.

Joelly Goodson : 3:19

Yeah. Wow. Who would have thought? I'm in Calgary, Canada. Have you ever been here?

Paddy Gilmore: 3:23

I haven't. Sadly, I'd love to go to Canada, but I'm very I haven't yet.

Joelly Goodson : 3:27

And so are you originally from London? Or where are you from?

Paddy Gilmore: 3:30

I grew up in the southwest of England little town called Biddeford my father's Irish. And so he's known.

Joelly Goodson : 3:36

I was gonna say, Shaka, and I have to say about your name. I think it's so funny because Patti Gilmore. So is your official title, a humorous? What's your official title? Are you discouraged?

Paddy Gilmore: 3:48

I suppose it would be humor consultant, humor consultant.

Joelly Goodson : 3:52

Okay, so and we're gonna get we're gonna get into that. I love that. Your name is Patty Gilmore, because right away when I heard your name, I thought of Happy Gilmore. Have you ever heard of Happy Gilmore?

Paddy Gilmore: 4:02

Oh, yeah. The Adam Sandler film, right. And

Joelly Goodson : 4:05

so. So Heidi, of course, I thought of like Irish. And then so I just thought what a perfect name. And you know, it was really cute. Thank you. So when you said you were Irish, I wasn't surprised. Well, thank you so much for joining me. I'm really, really excited to have you here. I love humor. I tried to use it every day. So I'm really excited to dive in with you today and talk about a subject that I love. So before we get into it, you have a master's degree, quote unquote, investigating humor. When I read that I thought that was so interesting. Can you tell me about that and what your thesis was on?

Paddy Gilmore: 4:41

Sure, sure. Well, me so my master's was in history of art. And I specialized in looking at avant garde art groups and how they use humor in Paris in the 1890s and the 1960s. So that was a my thesis was basically on comparing avant garde art groups and humor. So it was really quite niche. But it was a very good master to do because what it did is, you know, I had to investigate human, I had to look at the kind of human techniques they were using. And I had to look at, you know, the human mechanisms, and I have the science of it and the psychology of it. And I think that's what kind of set me on my path. And that was about 25 years ago now. And then I think on the back of that, I mean, because I found it so interesting. I'd also studied a lot of Andy Warhol and I really liked advertising commercial art, I thought, okay, advertising would seem to be my natural home, because I loved funny ads. So it just kind of led me into my career.

Joelly Goodson : 5:39

I actually find that English humor is is really great humor Do you like

Paddy Gilmore: 5:44

I to be he's one of those comedians, I like some of his scripted work. The office, I think he's fantastic. As a stand up, I'm not a huge fan. No, I think I mean, I mean, the office when that came out, that changed the game. And sort of extras is great as well. I mean, a very, very talented man.

Joelly Goodson : 6:02

I like Yeah, exactly. I like his humor, because I think it is smart. Well, and he did a show on Netflix recently after life. Yes. And that was Yeah. Did you see?

Paddy Gilmore: 6:13

I did see that. I was to be honest, I'm

Joelly Goodson : 6:16

a big fan.

Paddy Gilmore: 6:17

I wasn't wasn't such a fan now. But I think, you know, sometimes it's sometimes it kind of misses. But yeah, very smart guy.

Joelly Goodson : 6:25

And that brings up another point is humor is very subjective. Right. I mean, that's the thing, too, is what I think is funny. You may not think is funny. I mean, when I talk about English comedians, Blackadder, I think is another one right? That was really popular back in the day. And when when I was younger, my dad used to watch Oh, who was that? I don't even know if he's still around. He did these really funny, who's Catholic? It's kind of chubby any do you don't talk more, he was like, really famous popular? That's awesome. Now, I can't think of his name. It'll come to me. But humor being so subjective. When a company or brand is looking to infuse humor into their branding, or marketing or advertising? What's the process? How did they know what kind of humor is going to work with their target audience?

Paddy Gilmore: 7:12

This is a very, very good question here, what I do is I look at several different areas. Two principal ones are what I call psychographic elements. So typically, what we can say that people as distinctive people, as you know, themselves, and demographic factors as well. So the kind of factors that people share. And I think it's a good way of seeing if a human is going to be successful, is finding out what people share in common. You know, those commonality elements are extremely important. Often when human misfired, it's when, you know, there's a sense that part of the group that is aimed towards just doesn't get it. So by kind of isolating out those common factors, that we can say, Okay, this is yours that we're speaking to, these are the kinds of things that they are disposed to that indisposed to their sympathies, their views or opinions. And so this is the best way to handle it.

Joelly Goodson : 8:04

Okay, so there's actually a science behind it,

Paddy Gilmore: 8:06

there is a science behind. Yeah, it's very interesting. There was between 90 and 199, there were two articles published with the title that contained words laughter or humor. Okay, between 2000 2009, there were 440 articles published, it has just, it has exploded so much. Over the past decade, we've had over 1000 academic articles published. And this is just looking at the psychology of humor. There's also the philosophy of humor, the politics of humor. I mean, humor is a really expanding subject right now, both within marketing and within academia. And I think this is why it's so interesting, because we know so much about it. And my feeling is that within marketing circles, so many more brands would be so much more valuable, and so much more kind of price per customers, if they were to bring this thinking into their communications.

Joelly Goodson : 9:01

I agree. I absolutely agree. Before I continue, I remember the name and I had to write down Benny Hill. Benny Hill. Yeah. All right. He had

Paddy Gilmore: 9:10

divided people. Yeah. Divided. Well, some of his songs his, if you see him kind of being if you see him chasing,

Joelly Goodson : 9:18

oh, I know. I know. He would never get away with a che. Right? I mean, that no, and I want to talk about all that. Because a lot of things that were funny, you know, back in the day would never go today. But I want to say that but I read somewhere recently in an article that 72% of consumers want brand communication on social to be funny. Why do you think that is? Why do you think there's thirst for comedy and humor right now?

Paddy Gilmore: 9:43

Yeah, I think I think there's there's cost three main reasons for this. I think I think the first reason is that I mean, we talked about social, the social asbestos socializing and when you're socializing in the pub, or in a bar in a cafe. Humor is naturally there. It's a wonderful thing to have. So we accepted as being there. So I think that's part of the reason why so many people want that. I think the second reason is that people on social media increasingly there's a lot of loneliness there. And you know, this loneliness means that humor is a really nice thing to kind of cure that there was an American comedian Geico, Sid Caesar, who once said, he said, The great thing about humor, it resolves people's loneliness, it makes them feel less lonely. So that's the second thing. I think the third thing is what happens with humor everywhere, which is it has been shown that using humor increases dopamine levels increases oxytocin, and it just makes us feel better about ourselves. And it's interesting, even the anticipation of humor has been shown to increase these hormones within us. So it is very much a wonderful thing, you know, well, social or elsewhere?

Joelly Goodson : 10:50

Well, and especially I would say, so I agree with everything you just said, I think it connects us, right, because it's an emotion that if you, I always try, you know, especially when I meet new people to try to crack a smile or get them to crack a smile, because it sort of eases the tension. And then it helps you connect with another person. And then I think it makes that connection brings you closer together. And so going back to brands and business, you know, when brands do that on social, I think it helps them connect with their audience, whichever type of humor that they use. I love that you said Sid Caesar I, by the way, I'm older than you might think. So I know all these. I remember another one. So my dad, you know, I was talking about my dad. So just to give you a little background, he you know, humor was a big part of my upbringing. And he actually he's not around anymore. He died in 1999. But he used to perform in the war. In World War Two, he was actually performer and he used to dress up as Groucho Marx. form for the soldiers. Yeah, so he used to perform. So humor was always a part of our life. And all the old comedians, we had movies of Charlie Chaplin, that was another of his favorites, you know, so I've always been surrounded by it. He was very funny, man. So going back full circle to talking about social now and why 72% of consumers are wanting it. I think, with everything that's gone on in the world today, especially with COVID, and everything that we need to just lighten up. And if we can have a laugh and escape from what's going on in the world, I think it's just a nice escape for everybody. And so when brands do that, you know, speaking of COVID, I want to get your take on this. There was an ad that came out. And it was when we were I think it might have been about a year or so ago. It was Wrigley's gum mat. I don't know if you? Yeah. And but I seen two versions of it. So I've seen the online full version. And then I've seen the watered down edited version on television. So I want to hear your your take on that app, because I thought it was brilliant. I loved it. And I shared it with everybody. When I saw it on social, what's your take on that?

Paddy Gilmore: 12:51

I thought it was great. It was absolutely fantastic. And it was a really good example of the way that a brand can use humor. It might not have a massive insight, but it's just has so much Witten in it, you know, you know, basically saying that after a couple of years of COVID people have bad breath, and they want to go out and they want to kiss someone. And so they're going to have the employees use chewing gum again. Fantastic is great. And I think it was it was lovely to see that and what I liked about it especially. And this is where he works so well in communications is it's not really about salesmanship often. It's about showmanship, it's about the show, it's about putting on a show exactly where there's entertainment.

Joelly Goodson : 13:33

Yeah. And I think it really I thought it was so brilliant. And it talks to a lot of what you said earlier about what everyone has in common, right. And so for our listeners who haven't seen the commercial yet, it really is basically showing all these people waking up in their homes or finally now and this isn't a fictitious future world, right? Because this is back when we were I think still in lockdown or getting close to getting out. And all these guys with these long beards and everybody, all of a sudden, there's these tumbleweeds. And all of a sudden, people are like, we can get out now. And so every and we've all no one's been able to have any human contact, right. So there's that commonality that around the globe, everyone's felt and now all of a sudden we're out and we're seeing people and touching people and so you see these people just grabbing each other in the park and make a note and and it was also relevant. And that's your thing about humor, you know, because that ad maybe wouldn't have worked for another product like a car or a lot of products and may not have worked for but because it was GM and you're kissing people that was such a brilliant use of that product where everybody and then yeah,

Paddy Gilmore: 14:35

I was just gonna say that. John Haggerty once said that a great advert is a product demonstration with a twist. And I think that's such a wise thing. You know, and so this is often where humor works so well. So if you take the the classic Levi's AD, the Levi's 501 ad of the 1980s, which a guy goes into laundrette takes off his jeans. Oh, I remember that it the washing machine. Yeah. No, that's a product demonstration. These are shrink to fit jeans, just for demonstration with a twist. Yeah, that's the kind of advert that no one would really think is a funny ad. I mean, it's very attractive. It's a very cool ad, you know when, but it is, in a way, quite a humorous ad, because it just kind of has that element of surprise. That twist that unexpectedness was clever. It was.

Joelly Goodson : 15:24

I think humor. I think the best humor is clever like that. So what are some other brands that are getting it right, when it comes to humor?

Paddy Gilmore: 15:32

I think only they're doing it very, very well. You know, only to the kind of the oat based milk non dairy milk. I don't know if you can get that in Canada, you know, only is a Scandinavian brand. I think it could be it could be Swedish. It started about a decade ago, and they produce oat based milk. And they have done a number of really, really good advertising campaigns. One of them was the CEO sitting in a field playing a electronic keyboard and singing a song about his product. Some really, really nice adverts Another one was double page ad and one was this adverts for teenagers in India on the other side you had this advert is for teenagers dads and it's basically saying if you're a teenager and you know you don't dairy milk or oat based milk, read this part, then the dad really nice way of doing things so Oatly is really nice and other brands are doing really well. Specsavers Specsavers Titian's Specsavers Specsavers, so what they did is things like for example, when Manchester United had a really bad result last season, they put a tweet out saying, if you come into a Specsavers branch, we will put the lenses out of your glasses. So the next time we see a Manchester United match that then went viral and you know, just some really nice social stuff. Ryanair, also do some amazing stuff on social and yeah, the some of the brands doing some some really stuff.

Joelly Goodson : 17:00

Brilliant. Okay, so we talked about a couple of brands that are doing really well and are getting it right, are their businesses out there that should stay away from humor when it comes to their branding in their advertising and marketing.

Paddy Gilmore: 17:11

It's interesting, because traditionally, the thought has been that basically luxury brands, you know, high, you know, consideration high price brands shouldn't use humor. So if you're selling, say sports cars or jewelry, then that's typically not really kind of humorous place to like play it.

Joelly Goodson : 17:29

Why not jewelry?

Paddy Gilmore: 17:30

Well, this is it. It's interesting, because there are exceptions. Like I said, there are exceptions to this. So Harvey Nichols is a very well known high end department store here in the UK. And they've done phenomenally well, a very, very humorous ad campaigns. So this is the strange thing. You know, there is a sense well, if it hasn't been done a certain area, we can't do it. But often then a really smart brown such as Harvey Nichols will then think, okay, no one else is doing no one else has done it. Exactly, exactly. So that's, that's one side of it. I mean, the most popular area, and this is where humans use the most is in low cost cat treats. So these will be typically things like fast food, sweets, drinks, that kind of thing. And that's where humans traditionally been used. But what's interesting is it's changing quite dramatically. I mean, once upon a time, if you go back 30 years or so, it would have been very much okay. You would be kind of advertising toys or sweets, you everything. Okay, well use humor. But what's happened since then is humans now use a lot more in serious products. So things like pensions or insurance. So like the Geico ads in America are well famous, you know, they're selling insurance. And you think, okay, it's quite a high consideration purchase, you want that insurance to be the best insurance you can get. So it's not a trivial thing, by any means. It's not low costs, you know, it's quite a serious decision. So this is where humor works really well is often as something is very serious. A way to get across that seriousness is by encapsulating it in like a humorous jacket, as it were.

Joelly Goodson : 19:02

Well, it's like that element of surprise, like you said earlier, not expecting. So with that said, I mean, then would you say that all brands or all businesses could and should use humor? Or do you think there's still some that you would like if a company came to you or you had a client that came to you and they were an undertaker? I'm thinking something really serious? Or I don't even know what but would you steer someone away? I'd say, you know, I really don't know if you should be using humor in your branding or in your marketing, or you think it's fair game for everybody?

Paddy Gilmore: 19:33

Well, no, humor isn't a game for everyone. I think what I would do is I would look at their business. And I would basically say that she has been shown to work extremely well, when a business has three needs. So the first one is if the proposition is a bit taboo, within the marketing is a bit of a great example. This is the economist ads. So the economist ads, were basically saying, if you don't read this magazine, you're a bit of a failure. Okay? Now, you can't really communicate that straight Don't you have to use wit in order to get that across? Okay, right. So if the proposition could be slightly insulting, then humor is gonna be very effective. The second reason when it's very effective is when the subject is very serious. A very good example of this is the Dumb ways to die and campaign, which I think was the Melbourne public transport system, which basically was was saying, you know, there was like a song, but you know, Dumb ways to die. And it was saying that, okay, you don't be messing around on railway tracks, it's gonna be a really bad thing to do. And you could only do that really seriously. Or there was like a song as a jingle, there was a come animated cartoon that went along with it, using it was a bit different. So it was funny. It was funny, it was funny. And the last thing is, when you want to widen an audience, so often there's like a specific audience, but the brand wants to broaden that audience out, think, okay, how do we get other people interested in something and brand they might already know, but they might not think is for them. And this is a really good way, make it funny. So all of a sudden becomes a bit more acceptable bit more interesting. And you can then broaden your audience there that way. So those are the three key things I would talk a brand about. And I do talk to brands about. And on the back of that we can make that decision about, you know, whether or not to use humor, and how to find the right sense of humor for the brand.

Joelly Goodson : 21:19

So what I'm hearing from you correct me if I'm wrong, Patti is you can always find a way to use humor, humor, no matter what business you're in, is that correct? Or I again, is there anyone that you would say, No matter? Like, stay away from Huber, if you're in this business of blank,

Paddy Gilmore: 21:35

I would say you can't use it everywhere. There are certain things which can be very difficult to use. If you're advertising cremation services, for example, then it isn't going to be appropriate, I think, still

Joelly Goodson : 21:46

extremely clever. You can? No, I mean, I just find it so interesting, because I think, you know, I'm just I can't even think of any business or product or brand where someone hasn't taken a clever twist on it. And somehow, you have to be like you said, you have to be really smart. And you can't be offensive for sure.

Paddy Gilmore: 22:06

Exactly. Yeah. I mean, if something is seen as kind of high risk and high expense, then using humor is a little bit of a risk there.

Joelly Goodson : 22:15

And then it's a different type of humor, like you said, then you would have to figure out what would work best.

Paddy Gilmore: 22:19

Exactly, exactly. So if you take I mean, you know, consultancy groups, so Accenture, those ones that if they would tend to veer away from humor, because you know, the expensive of using those kind of consultants is so high. And basically the brands that go and work with them, they want to diminish risk. So they would be kind of it is very much like a kind of non human place. The only exception to that though, is if a consultancy did decide to use it, they would stand out. And obviously martinis about selling out.

Joelly Goodson : 22:51

Yeah, no, it's interesting. Okay, so talking about fear. I want to talk about a subject here that I've had conversation with people a lot lately. And that's about canceled culture. And I think I sort of touched on this a little bit earlier about how a lot of comedians and comedy in general has been watered down because and you know, Ricky Gervais is actually a great example of that, where, I mean, he doesn't he doesn't care. But a lot of comedians that we've seen have sort of stayed away because the fear of being cancelled. That's why there's not really a lot of good comedies on TV, a lot of good movies, comedy movies that are have come out lately on mainstream. I mean, not necessarily on you know, a streaming services, do you think it's affected it in the ad world and in your world specifically?

Paddy Gilmore: 23:38

Yeah, I mean, I think it's interesting because the thing about canceled culture is canceled culture very much applies, I think, to people, you know, so JK Rowling, for example, she you know, recently because of her comments about transgender, you know, kind of issues. She, she's canceled. She She has been. The thing about brands is there might well be scandals that happened to brands, but the brand might not be then canceled. So Volkswagen had its huge emission scandal, you know, going back seven years, I think it wasn't very false. Volkswagen,

Joelly Goodson : 24:10

Volkswagen, okay. Was the scandal I don't think I knew.

Paddy Gilmore: 24:18

Basically, it's diesel cars were emitting something up to 40 trains, diesel emissions, they're actually saying they were they were emitting this was discovered, and Volkswagen tried to cover it up, and they have paid very hefty fines. And they've obviously paid a huge PR price. But I wouldn't kind of class that brand as as therefore canceled. It's interesting, because, you know, we use a phrase canceled culture, and there's definitely a real thing there. It does happen. But I think that often when we talk about brands, it's used as a kind of cliche. I was listening to a panel discussion recently about humor. And the man who was hosting the panel, talked about this tsunami of canceled culture just around the corner. I remember listening to that and thinking Okay, well, Where's that coming from? Where is this tsunami coming from? When's he going to hit us? You know, and it just sounded in a way like lazy thinking.

Joelly Goodson : 25:08

I don't think it's here. Now, you don't think people are so scared to say anything that they're worried of being canceled? And not only people but brands as well.

Paddy Gilmore: 25:17

I think I think people are fearful, definitely. But I think it's more than a kind of a domestic holding on fair jobs kind of level, the average tenure of a chief marketing officer is three years, right? So many people in senior roles within marketing, don't want to take risks, because they don't want to be blamed. So I think what this does, is this music canceled culture has become a bit of a kind of a nice little excuse that people use for basically not taking risks with brand communications. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, it definitely does exist. But it can sometimes seem to me to be this very amorphous thing. And my questioning is always like, okay, let's find out the real proof. Let's find out exactly what we know about your audience. And let's go on that. And that's the best possible way of diminishing and someone's eradicating any possible backlash.

Joelly Goodson : 26:09

That's interesting. I never thought of it that way. But yeah, you're probably right people using as an excuse, talking about all these different types of humor. Do you have a favorite type of humor?

Paddy Gilmore: 26:18

I do. I do. I think it's self refuting humor, which often comes out as pratfall effect, and I'll probably say my favorite ever advertising campaign uses that in spades. And it's for the Hans Brinker Hotel, which is in Holland. And this is a hotel, which is a budget hotel. Okay, so there was a Dutch advertising agency called kesselskramer, who got this account in the mid 1990s. And they had to advertise the hotel. So basically, it was untrue. So they use this flawed approach, they said, you know, now we have bedrooms with a window. Now we have taught us with blushes, this kind of thing. And the hotel became a cult, a cult brand. Exactly. So that kind of humor and love, because it's true, it's honest, it's also really good to use, because the joke is on yourself. So the butter, the joke is there. It's a really, really nice method to use, and it's massively underused, as well.

Joelly Goodson : 27:12

I think it's great too, because you are, you're sort of exposing yourself before anyone else can write. And you're, you're sort of pointing out what your flaws were. So no one else can and you're laughing about it, making fun of it, but also using that to connect and people appreciate that. And, you know, there's that vulnerability comes back, right, which is, yeah, I hear that all the time when it comes to branding, and when I talk different peoples, but the more vulnerable you are, the better you're gonna be able to connect with your audience. And so that that's a great example. So for people that are listening, I have a lot of entrepreneurs, small business owners and business leaders that are listening. Can you share, let's say three do's and three don'ts of using humor in branding? Let's start with don't start with the negative and end on a positive.

Paddy Gilmore: 27:57

Okay. Okay, so the three don'ts is don't think it's about Barry loves, yes, belly laughs a good. But a good way to describe humor. When brands use it is a smile in the mind. So it's something that makes you feel good inside, you might not actually laugh, but that doesn't matter. They feel good. They feel that warmth, that's really useful. The second thing is don't just examine your audience's media diets and decide on that this is what happens a lot within advertising agencies. And I don't think it's very good at all, is that people look at an audience they might say, okay, their favorite show is shits Creek. That means they like this type of humor. And my approach, and I think a far wiser approach is actually speaking to your audience using humor styles, questionnaires, but these questionnaires have been used in academia, for decades now very effective, very thorough, to actually speak to your audience where to get a sense of what they're like. And I think I think the third thing I would say is without sounding self important, don't think of humor as frivolous or unimportant. Because it's not, it's a really incredible trait, because it's universal. You know, there's been no cultural anthropologist who studied culture of the kosher nerve, and they haven't found one culture yet, without a sense of humor. This is a trait that is that so many people have, and it's a trait that we know more and more more about. And this is why, you know, there's every reason to look into it, you know, for marketers, and branding experts.

Joelly Goodson : 29:32

Okay. Before you go to the do's. I just want to I think that was really interesting point you just said but wouldn't you also say though, that it's very cultural specific, in the sense that what might be finding especially, you know, we talked about what's funny in London or the UK versus what's funny in Canada versus what may not be funny in Asia, right or other cultures. So isn't that also like aren't cultures very specific in their humor as well? But I

Paddy Gilmore: 29:59

think what matters More. In fact, the research shows that what matters more is demographics rather than country borders. So if you're talking about, say, you know, the humor within Holland, it's different to that in Germany, yes, there might well be differences there. But that demographic is a far greater thing. If you're marketing a product to a certain audience within Holland, and Germany, and you know, that demographic really, really well, then the use of humor was far more successful. And it crosses

Joelly Goodson : 30:25

all borders. So if you were targeting, you were targeting let's say, Gen Z, for example, you they would be the same whether you were targeting them in Holland or in Sweden, or in London or in Asia, they would all be would all get it,

Paddy Gilmore: 30:38

they would have far more in common, right in terms of, of what they would share in terms of their their interests, their views, or opinions, rather than what their passports were, it's a very interesting debate this actually, because there was a study done a few years ago, and it was looking at individualism versus collectivism. And what they did is they took America and China, and they thought, okay, America, is the individualistic nation. This is where everyone wants to strive for, you know, kind of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You know, however, China is very much about collectivism has a history of very long history of collectivism, and communism, and so forth. So they showed different adverts to different focus groups within America in China. And they discovered it was the exact opposite within China, like the individualistic ones, and from within America, like the collectivist Oh, isn't that interesting? Yeah, exactly. It is about aspiring to like a different place within America wants that sense of belonging. They missed that. And they want more of that. So this is why when I say don't examine your audience's media diets, examine the audience themselves, it's really worth doing that. Because the surprises there, you can actually find real insights, really surprising insights that go against what we might think. And that's why it's so important.

Joelly Goodson : 32:01

I love that. Wow, that's very interesting. Okay, so let's end it on the three do's.

Paddy Gilmore: 32:09

So the first one is everything you

Joelly Goodson : 32:11

just said, do the opposite.

Paddy Gilmore: 32:14

The first, the first thing actually taps into what you're talking about, if you like. So the first thing is do research humor thoroughly. The more research you do of humor styles of humor mechanisms of the audience, the better, the final result will be. So often when people are fearful, it's because they think of humor as this kind of slightly kind of strange, weird thing that we all know and like, but it's slightly dangerous. And my feeling is No, when you go out there and do the homework, you'll be fine. Second one is separate comedy and humor. So comedies genres. So when you talk about slapstick, as a type of comedy, or as humor is obviously the kind of fibers that build these Comedy genres. So sometimes, you know, when people talk about comedy, fine, that's where humor goes. But often with an ad, especially, say, a print ad, it might not be, you know, an example of comedy. And the last thing is basically put your fears to one side, this is humor. And it's one of those things that creatives like to create brands like to promote, and audiences like to consume. And so it's something that's definitely because we know so much more about it now. Because, you know, it's definitely very welcoming this kind of, as we're moving through this kind of COVID, post COVID time, I think it's definitely something that you know, that it's time has come again. And there's definitely, you know, talk of a resurgence in it. And rightly so,

Joelly Goodson : 33:39

I totally agree. And I think it's needed now more than ever, for all the reasons that you just talked about. And I love what you said about comedy versus humor. I never thought of that that way before. But yeah, you're right. It's very different. And at the end of the day, I always talk about how branding is about connecting on an emotional level. And humor is an emotion. And when you can tap into that emotion. I think it's a great way to connect, and I'm all for it. Do you think people are born with a sense of humor? Like do you think you learn to be

Paddy Gilmore: 34:09

they've discovered that children who are born without the ability to see or hear, can laugh, they can laugh?

Joelly Goodson : 34:17

Without the ability to see or hear can still laugh?

Paddy Gilmore: 34:20

Yeah. So it is an innate thing. You know, I think that everyone to a greater or lesser extent, has a sense of humor. I mean, I mean, it's very different. I think what's interesting, and this is what makes it so fascinating for me is that humor is a universal trait. But it is so unique to every single person on this planet. It is a huge paradox. So that's one of the biggest paradoxes about it. And the second biggest paradox is that humor is capable of bringing so many people together, but when it's not done properly, it's capable of creating enormous division. Oh, is those two paradoxes? Which, you know, basically, in a way drive me to find out more about it? Because it's extraordinary.

Joelly Goodson : 35:08

Yeah, I agree. Do you think you're funny? Do you think? I mean, you certainly be funny to have a good sense of humor, right? Yeah.

Paddy Gilmore: 35:17

I've been told them quite dry.

Joelly Goodson : 35:20

Dry humor is a good humor. Yeah. Might you know what one of my best friends actually is one of the funniest people I know. But you would never know it because she has such a dry sense of humor, which is just great. And I get it. But you know, you don't know a lot of people get dry sense of humor, right?

Paddy Gilmore: 35:35

Yeah, I didn't know. I mean, it kind of changes. So So you know, when my wife says I'm quite dry. My children. They think I'm, I'm quite goofy. But that's maybe that's because children expect a goofy sense of humor.

Joelly Goodson : 35:47

Yeah, I can look at the time I can't believe it's gone by so quickly. Patty, it's been so much fun talking to you. Thank you so so much for taking the time to speak with me. If people want to learn more about you and how they can connect with you. What's the best way?

Paddy Gilmore: 36:00

So my site is Studio gilmore.com. And that's studio then gi l m. O R e.com. And I'm on Twitter at Mr. Patti Gilmore,

Joelly Goodson : 36:10

Mr. Patti Gamora. And do you have clients all over the world are mostly in the UK

Paddy Gilmore: 36:14

at the moment in the UK and America? In America? Okay. Also, I basically work for clients in Germany as well, various parts of Europe and Australia, hopefully soon as well.

Joelly Goodson : 36:25

Amazing. Well, you know, that's a great thing about the digital space. I have listeners all over the world. So I do have people in the UK, so they might probably know you. So and the brands that you mentioned that I didn't know they probably know so. Well. Thank you so much. Do you have any closing words before we say goodbye?

Paddy Gilmore: 36:41

I just like to like say thank you. It's been wonderful to talk to you about about human brands. And yeah, thank you very much. I really enjoyed

Joelly Goodson : 36:48

my pleasure. Well, me too. Well, we'll definitely stay in touch.

Paddy Gilmore: 36:51

Sounds good. Thanks so much.

Joelly Goodson : 36:58

And there you have it. Thank you so much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed the conversation and maybe learned a few things to help you with your branding. This show is a work in progress. So please remember to rate and review on whatever platform you listen to podcasts. And if you'd like help creating brand awareness for your business, please reach out to me on any of the social platforms and you guessed it, Branding Badass, I promise you I reply to all my messages. Branding Matters was produced, edited and hosted by Joelly. Goodson also me. So thank you again and until next time, here's to all you badasses out there