How to Monetize Your Social Purpose with Margaret Glover Campbell (Virtual Gurus)

My guest today is Margaret Glover Campbell, COO of Virtual Gurus - the largest and most trusted virtual assistant marketplace in North America. What began as a small start-up in 2016, has skyrocketed into an award-winning business that puts diversity and inclusion at the forefront of everything they do.

A self-confessed science and ‘technology-geek’, Margaret has built some of North America’s most phenomenal, high-performing teams, and has worked closely with development groups to build exceptional, award-winning products.

I invited Margaret to be a guest in my show to talk about the importance of having a  social mission. I wanted to know how a former marketing exec became one of the tech world’s most respected leaders. And I was curious to get her POV on the role swag plays in creating brand awareness.

𝗕𝗿𝗮𝗻𝗱𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗠𝗮𝘁𝘁𝗲𝗿𝘀 𝗶𝘀 𝗯𝗿𝗼𝘂𝗴𝗵𝘁 𝘁𝗼 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗯𝘆 𝗚𝗲𝗻𝘂𝗺𝗮𝗿𝗸 - 𝗢𝗻𝗲 𝗼𝗳 𝗡𝗼𝗿𝘁𝗵 𝗔𝗺𝗲𝗿𝗶𝗰𝗮’𝘀 𝗺𝗼𝘀𝘁 𝘁𝗿𝘂𝘀𝘁𝗲𝗱 𝗺𝗲𝗿𝗰𝗵 𝗺𝗮𝗸𝗲𝗿𝘀 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝗼𝘃𝗲𝗿 𝟰𝟬 𝘆𝗲𝗮𝗿𝘀.
From promotional products, custom uniforms, and clothing, to sports co-branding, web stores and warehousing - Genumark is your #1 partner for creating brand awareness. And being ISO certified – you can rest assured ethical sourcing and sustainability are front and centre. If you’re looking for help  with your next project, email brandingmatters@genumark.com

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About Me
Hey there, I'm Joelly - the Branding Badass. My badass superpower is helping you build a brand that matters. From branded merch to brand consulting, when you work with me, you get results!

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Transcript

Joelly Goodson : 0:10

Hi I'm Joelly, your Branding Badass. And welcome to Branding Matters - a podcast I created and host to help you create brand equity. Branding Matters is brought to you by Genumark, one of North America's most trusted branded merch makers for over 40 years. Branded merchandise is one of the best ways to create brand awareness. Whether with your team or your fans, there's no better way to show your appreciation, connect with your audience and build community than by combining thoughtful design with great products that tell your brand story. When you partner with Genumark, you get more. More personalized service, more creativity, more innovative solutions. And more importantly, you get it all from a talented team of branding experts who have the experience and know-how to make your job easier and best of all more fun. From promotional products, custom uniforms and clothing to sports co-branding, web stores and warehousing, Genumark makes it happen. And being ISO certified, you can rest assured ethical sourcing and sustainability are front and center. Genumark is big enough to matter, but small enough to care. So if you're looking for the right partner to help you create brand awareness, email brandingmatter@genumark.com to start your next project today. My guest today is Margaret Glover Campbell, CEO of Virtual Gurus - the largest and most trusted virtual assistant marketplace in North America. What began as a small startup in 2016 has skyrocketed into an award-winning business that puts diversity and inclusion at the forefront of everything they do. A self-confessed science and technology geek, Margaret has built some of North America's most phenomenal high performing teams, and has worked closely with development groups to build exceptional award-winning products. I invited Margaret to be a guest on my show today to talk about the social mission of Virtual Gurus. I wanted to know how a former marketing exec became one of the tech world's most respected leaders. And I was curious to get her point of view on the role SWAG plays in creating brand awareness. Margaret, thank you so much for being here today. Welcome to Branding Matters!

Margaret Glover Campbell: 2:34

Hey Joelly, thanks so much for having me. It's great to be here.

Joelly Goodson : 2:37

Oh, it's great. It's so great to see you again. You know, I was thinking about how far back we go in. And honestly, I know that our kids went to school, but I couldn't remember which child. So remind me again about how we first met?

Margaret Glover Campbell: 2:50

It actually went back before we had kids, it went back to my agency days. So we're talking 1996.

Joelly Goodson : 3:01

Where were you working?

Margaret Glover Campbell: 3:02

Creative Intelligence.

Joelly Goodson : 3:04

Oh my god. Okay.

Margaret Glover Campbell: 3:05

Yeah. Yeah. So it went way back. And then our paths kind of intersected socially at a couple of black and white ball events and

Joelly Goodson : 3:16

You have a great memory! And then so

Margaret Glover Campbell: 3:20

Our 16 year olds went to school together

Joelly Goodson : 3:22

okay, so my son, my second how many kids do you have?

Margaret Glover Campbell: 3:24

just one,

Joelly Goodson : 3:25

one. Okay. And so he's 16. Now?

Margaret Glover Campbell: 3:27

He's 16.

Joelly Goodson : 3:28

Okay, so Aaron is 15. So and they both went to elementary school together, right?

Margaret Glover Campbell: 3:32

Yeah. Westgate French immersion Yeah.

Joelly Goodson : 3:34

So we've been connected in the professional world forever. We were on the agency side. What did you do at Creative Intelligence?

Margaret Glover Campbell: 3:41

I was Production Manager.

Joelly Goodson : 3:42

Okay. Yeah. And I was a copywriter back in my copywriting days.

Margaret Glover Campbell: 3:46

Exactly. It's a long time.

Joelly Goodson : 3:48

I know. And then I was thinking about that even with swag. I was looking back, you worked at a couple of companies. And when I change industries and got into the swag world, we work together, you reached out to me, which was awesome. And then when virtual gurus launched in 2016, I remember when you were small, and you'd like I just started this new we just started this new company. And we just need a few things and do even do a small order to remember that.

Margaret Glover Campbell: 4:10

Well, that was a little bit preemie. But I know Bobby had had reached out before that right and, and just got some small, some small runs of stuff.

Joelly Goodson : 4:20

It's been so amazing watching, watching you and your career and watching virtual gurus. So this is really fun. And I'm so excited because we haven't really talked in a long time. We've just sort of always crossed paths. And then I work with your team. So let's talk about virtual gurus I want to get into because you what an exciting time for you guys. And so much is happening and it's been such an amazing ride. So like I said it launched in 2016. And Bobby razza is the CEO and so what inspired her to start it and then how did you and Bobby connect.

Margaret Glover Campbell: 4:48

So like many people in 2016, Bobbi was working in the oil and gas world and she got laid off like so many people did back then during the downturn. And she was having a hard time finding a new role. She was facing barriers because of who she is and how she presents. So Bobby is an LGBTQ to S plus individual. She is also indigenous. And so she was really coming up against barriers. And so she decided to throw an ad into GG and advertising that she could provide virtual assistant services for companies. So she got a couple of clients. And then she got a couple more clients. And then she built up a bit of a roster and hired another person to help her on the VA side of things. And then somewhere along the way, she was having a discussion with somebody in the tech world. And they asked her if she'd ever considered turning this into like a tech startup. And that was the beginning of the journey. And so she went through an accelerator was paired with one of her current mentors. He's also on our board. And they they've been together forever now. So Ryan's his name. He's been along for the journey since the beginning. And then a mutual friend of ours, saw me one day and said, Hey, I have a client who's looking for a COO, and I think that you'd be perfect for it. I said, Well, fire an intro away. So she did. And Bobbi and I met and clicked right away. She loves to tell everybody, I cried during the interview when she started talking. She really started to really, yeah, when she was telling me all about her social mission, right, and everything that she wants to do to provide meaningful income earning opportunities for people who represent outside of the traditional nine to five, so people that you can think of that are traditionally underrepresented in the work world. And so yeah, I started to cry. And I kind of turned around, give me one second, found a tissue dead, my eyes went back. Okay, I'm good now. And so that that was that was almost three years ago. And then I started in January of 2020.

Joelly Goodson : 7:24

With that's amazing. So that was her mission right from the start. And so what were you doing at the time when she approached you or when you approached

Margaret Glover Campbell: 7:30

her, I was working for another company up in Edmonton. And this just ticked so many boxes, getting back into I was with us, nonprofit. And so getting back into the tech, the startup world was really exciting. For me, taking that CFO role was really exciting for me, as you know, and as we've kind of talked about my background, I did start in marketing and advertising 30 Some years ago.

Joelly Goodson : 8:00

We started we were 12. Right, exactly. I think

Margaret Glover Campbell: 8:03

I was nine. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, so just really loved the idea of tackling the CFO role for a startup and really putting all of my background in marketing and people operations and product and the whole thing around growth into into play. So how

Joelly Goodson : 8:28

exciting. And also, obviously Hermitian. I mean, that was what clinched the deal, I think, right?

Margaret Glover Campbell: 8:35

It really did. Yeah, it's been such an amazing ride personally, for me, and you know, just being able to connect the different people in my life, that are from an LGBT, or identify as LGBT, it really resonated one of one of my passions, since I moved into tech has been about seeing more women get into tech roles. I was at a mobile event matter No. 16 years ago, maybe 17 years ago. And there were a couple of 100 people in the room. And there were only five women. And I thought this is ridiculous. So that's really stuck with me. And so that's one of my personal passions, as well is women in technology and women in leadership roles in tech. And you don't have to be a developer to be in tech, right? A marketing person is in tech if they work in a tech startup.

Joelly Goodson : 9:31

That's amazing. Okay, so let's talk about the early back to the early stages, when you think about I mean, it was 2016 Everything has changed and the world has changed. So at the beginning and your company has changed, obviously. But at the beginning in the early days, you had some serious struggles trying to raise capital. Can you share why investors or potential investors were initially shied away from investing?

Margaret Glover Campbell: 9:53

Yeah, you know, I think that Bobby experienced the same thing in her precede. As she did when she was trying to find that role after the oil and gas layoff, she took 170 meetings, like if you can imagine 170 times to pitch the business. And when you meet Bobby, Bobby, is who she is. Right? She and I both are right. It's, this is huge. Right? And so, you know, she'd go into some of these meetings, and you could see a shift, when she walked into the meeting, you could see a shift in the behavior or the receptiveness of the people on the other side of the table. And so, like a negative shift, a negative shift, and it was really a struggle. I don't know if you know, the podcast, the pitch, she was invited to New York to do the pitch. And it's, it's a Dragon's Den style thing, right. But it's on podcasts rather than video. And every one of them turned her down. And the the most interesting comment from a few of them was that they didn't see the opportunity for us to scale they didn't, because we're were people intensive, obviously, right? We have currently 600 virtual assistants providing admin support for our clients. So yeah, they were like this. There's it's not scalable, lobbying, like, watch us. Yeah. But when we spoke with Raven, indigenous, they were our lead investor on our precede. And they're a fund out of BC, who specifically focuses on providing funding for indigenous led indigenous owned indigenous first businesses. So once we talked to them, and really understood that there's this niche around social impact investing that we could, because of our social mission really tap into. And so once we did that, the way smoothed out, incredibly Hmm.

Joelly Goodson : 12:14

So I read a really interesting quote, because of course, I do my research. And I read that you compared Virgil gurus to Patagonia, which I love the Patagonia brand, first of all, so can you elaborate a bit on that?

Margaret Glover Campbell: 12:25

Yeah, and this is, this was a discussion with one of our sales team members. And as we're talking about marketing, and branding, and what resonates with our target audience, my parallel was around Patagonia. So the sales team member loves Patagonia and buys Patagonia, because of their social mission, right. So he's 100% bought into what they're trying to do in the world. And he likes their gear. I knew about Patagonia, before, their social mission was probably widely known. And so I bought Patagonia because I love their gear, and have come to love their social mission. So we were really talking about it in relation to what do people like when clients engage with us or virtual assistants engage with us? Are they coming to us because of our social mission? Or are they coming to us? Because of what we do, right? And really, as a company, how do we make sure that we are talking to both of those audiences, so that if people are really interested in supporting the economic growth in Canada and the US, if people are really invested in Dei, and ESG, and all of those fun buzzwords that everybody talks about? Now, you know, that's a different segment from an audience perspective, than people who are strictly looking for a virtual assistant or a virtual assistant who's strictly looking for employment opportunities

Joelly Goodson : 14:00

for that one person out there who doesn't know what is the Patagonia social mission? Do you know

Margaret Glover Campbell: 14:09

it's all about a healthy planet. And if you look at their sustainability mission, and what they what they do, from a manufacturing perspective, around their tech gear, what they do from an upcycling and recycling perspective around their gear, right, it's so it's all really, really focused on having a clean world. And you know, this whole this beautiful, clean planet to explore. So, so that's their social mission. Yeah, I probably said it completely wrong. But no, no,

Joelly Goodson : 14:44

no, no, no, no, you did it very eloquently. You did it perfectly. And again, that's a company that's had that mission for years from now it seems all these companies are trying to jump on the bandwagon and you're hearing like all these buzzwords everywhere, and the reality is, I mean, Gen Z's are now entering the workforce. Right? I mean, can you believe Millennials are now in their 40s? People refer to millennials. Like they're so young. I'm like, yeah, they're not so young they're in. They're finally I don't even want to say what I'm just,

Margaret Glover Campbell: 15:14

you and I are the side. Yeah,

Joelly Goodson : 15:15

we're Gen X. So, but now, you know, Gen Z is the newest generation entering the workforce. I mean, their whole mission is all about that it's aligning themselves with brands and with businesses that they want to see behind the curtain, they want to see what your social mission is, they want to see all that it's a lot more than just the product or service. And I think that's one of the main reasons why all these companies and all these brands are starting to tap into that and really show um, you see it everywhere you see it on advertising you see all over social media, but then it's who is doing it for the dollar, and who's actually doing it, because that is they're being authentic. And that's their mission. And that's their purpose. And again, I go back to you guys back in 2016, when nobody was talking about it, that was Bobby's that was at the top of her idea for doing this business. That's what branding is all about. It's about differentiating yourself and doing things internally within your organization, as well as externally that's gonna align with them. And that's gonna connect with them, and they're going to buy into your brand. And would you agree with that,

Margaret Glover Campbell: 16:16

I totally willing, we're having so many conversations right now with enterprise size clients, or potential clients, who they know that at the core of what they're doing, they need to be able to bring ESG into what they're doing. And I don't know if you've ever looked at the ESG framework, and what it takes to really get those metrics in place, but it is onerous. And so when we can come in and talk about how ESG factors into what we do, so all of our virtual assistants, because they work from home, if you think about 600 people not commuting every day, and what that does to the carbon footprint. Those are the types of things that when we talk to companies, they're like, Oh, I get that. Right. And then you bring in the diversity and inclusion piece of things. And the commitment to the economy in Canada and the United States. There are all these factors at play, that really do help us differentiate from other companies. Right?

Joelly Goodson : 17:32

Yeah. Because there's lots of other virtual assistant companies out there, right?

Margaret Glover Campbell: 17:35

Yeah. Absolutely. And more by the day, I know. Yeah.

Joelly Goodson : 17:40

So staying on the whole branding thing. I mean, obviously, swag is my world. And I'm very passionate about it. And I've gotten to work with Moana on your team. And we've done some a lot of fun things with you guys. So Tom, let's talk about your swag. Why is it so important to you guys? We do a lot of it, which is fun. Why do you do it? And why is it so important to the brand,

Margaret Glover Campbell: 18:00

so we don't want just another t shirt with our logo on it, right? We really want to be able to represent who we are. So we rebranded a year ago now. And all of our swag and merchandise features our North Star. So our new logo has an asterisk in it. And the asterisk is our North Star. And it's meant to represent all of the underrepresented talent that we have on our ba side of things. So that features prominently. So all of our new T shirts that we just had done, right, we had women's and men's done, and the women's have all of the stars down on the front with a logo on the back. And the guys T shirts have the nice virtual gurus down the side. And so like it stands out, right and, and it's colorful, and it's approachable. So whenever we wear that, I know our team feels an immense sense of pride. We have so many people, our hoodies, which I think was the first thing that you did with us, for our new brand. Number of people are like, can I buy one of those? Right? And our virtual assistants are like, can we give those away as swag prizes to the VA team? Right? So there's this demand because we really seek to represent, how do I say this, we really try and represent we think we're a pretty hip cool company. Right? Right where that whole authenticity piece show up as you are. And so that whole culture piece is something that we want to reflect in our swag right. So how do we how we show up, you know our hoodies with the black hoodies with the white virtual gurus down the sleeve again Something that not everybody does. It's different. It's not crazy, right? They're not propeller hats with a little something like those years ago. Say that I know

Joelly Goodson : 20:13

10 years ago. You know what, I love that you said that because really what I'm hearing is that they, they're creating a sense of community. I mean, I see love when you guys post and all your team, they're wearing all the hoodies or all the T shirts and that sense of pride and that sense of community. And I think that's what it does, it builds it up, right? In a way that is fun. And I'm constantly when I'm talking to clients, and you know, you don't have to put a logo on it, you could put something fun on it, because people are more apt to wear it if the logo maybe isn't so prominent, but there's other things that are more prompt that are fun. And so I love everything that you just said, and I see it because I see your team's they're all wearing them. And I love that they want to steal them and take them right. That's the ultimate test when someone says, Can I steal that? Can I buy that? They you know? Exactly. So what advice would you have for a small company or a company that's listening as far as when they're looking to get branded merchandise or swag?

Margaret Glover Campbell: 21:07

You know, I think personally, I would stay away from going to kind of the big box promo companies who produce like hundreds and hundreds and 1000s and 1000s of the same item with different logos, right? Talk to somebody like you who

Joelly Goodson : 21:26

I'm not paying, by the way,

Margaret Glover Campbell: 21:27

she's not paying me. But considering how far we go back, right? Yeah, you say there's a trust there. Well, trust. I

Joelly Goodson : 21:35

like that. You said that? Because that's huge. Right? Right. It's all about relationships. It is

Margaret Glover Campbell: 21:39

absolutely, but so really seek out somebody who can work with you to get to the heart of your brand and your culture. Whatever you're doing, make sure that it's something that your team is going to want to wear, right? I see so many people with shirts with logos on it, and they're horrible fabric and right like cheap, cheap, you wouldn't go and you wouldn't go and buy that generally, right? So if it's a small company that has a limited budget, find something that truly speaks to who you want your people, or how you want your people to represent and what you think is going to resonate with them. So far. So I think that's my biggest piece of advice.

Joelly Goodson : 22:28

Great advice. I love that. Okay, so I want to talk a bit more about technology. I read that you put a lot of the company's success down to being run out of Calgary's thriving supportive tech industry, quote, unquote. So I love that Calgary has a thriving tech industry, because that's pretty new, right? I mean, we've been known as the oil town first, and I moved here in 90. Oh, gosh, I moved here in 94. I think and I mean, it was Boomtown oil. What's been the biggest change that you've seen in the Calgary tech scene since you've been in it? Yeah. I guess I have two part question. Sorry. And then why do you think it's changed? Why do you think all of a sudden now it's become that tech ecosystem?

Margaret Glover Campbell: 23:08

Yeah. So I flipped client side into a tech company from the agency world in 1999 2000. And at the time, you know, you could count the number of tech companies in Calgary on your hands, right. They're just there weren't that many of them. The Aleister Ross Technology Center, which is up by the university was the hub and still to some extent, is is still the hub for a lot of what happens in the tech world. But there was a very small organization who was the, you know, they were the representative kind of arm of the tech collective in Calgary. But again, it was small. There was a report that came out a few months ago, that I believe has Calgary it's either Calgary or Alberta with 3000. tech startups and scaleups. So if you can imagine going from 10 to 20 tech startups 22 years ago, to 3000. Today, if you look at the number of unicorns that we have in Calgary, right, we have Benevity. We have cement, we have shareworks by Morgan Stanley, we have Neo financial, right, there's there are all of these massive, Howsam Exactly. My clients are not unicorns, but they're definitely in the tech ecosystem, right? Yeah. And so exactly like you look at what Brett a good lawyer is doing, and you look at what Vince over at stellar all goes doing and what Bobby's doing right and there's just this energy around, really setting ourselves apart from And, you know, it's, it truly is amazing like for me to think back to 2000. And and think about how few companies there were and, and they were, you know, they were almost all, at least the ones I knew about almost all kind of r&d type of extensions out of the university, so very much moving from, this is what we're doing in the lab to productizing. But now, that's not happening, right? You've got again, I'll pick on Brett, because he friend of mine.

Joelly Goodson : 25:37

Okay. calls in.

Margaret Glover Campbell: 25:41

So Brett was a lawyer. And he's like, I don't want to do this. I think there's a way that we can change the paradigm around giving b2b companies access to affordable b2b startups, access to affordable legal assistance. And he did it right. And you know, Brett and I were actually in sales cohort together six or seven years ago, just when he was getting started. And, you know, it's just amazing to see, right, and people saying genuine, like, there's a there's a level of grit, that just wasn't there before. Bobbi will talk about how, you know, she had $300 in her pocket and had to go to her mom's to ask them for a loan to get the company going. Right. So there's, there's a lot of that happening. The VC world the funding, you know, the seed and the series a type backers, financial backers, that ecosystem has dramatically, dramatically changed.

Joelly Goodson : 26:47

So why, though, like, what do you think it was? Do you think it's the Do you think it's, I mean, it's the demographics, it's happening everywhere in the world, because the new generation is more tech savvy, or do you think I mean, the pandemic had some, do you think it's a mixture of everything? Like? No, I

Margaret Glover Campbell: 27:01

think it shifted a bit before the pandemic, I think back to a tech company I was at 16 years ago, we were publicly traded. We were a small tech company. But every single one of our founders came from Toronto. And it was a battle to get them to look at putting money into our company, rather than oil and gas. You know, I think that there was a tipping point at some point along the way, where the tech scene and the tech founders in Calgary started to show that we don't need money from the oil and gas typical investor because they were proving that they could be successful. So there was a bit of a paradigm shift there. And then you start to see companies becoming successful, and those people turning that success into angel investing, and then VC companies, right. And so that ecosystem kind of grew up alongside of the success that was built up in the in the tech startup world. Mm hmm.

Joelly Goodson : 28:13

Well, it's very exciting. And there's an area now in Calgary and forgive me, I don't remember the name. Do you know the I'm talking about? We're now it's the little tech hub where there's a platform. What's it called? Platform? Yeah, that was there for dinner the other night? I can't remember the name. What's that restaurant camera or something? Anyway, and so I was talking to the waitress and she was telling us how that is. It's all tech companies that are all in there, and they're growing. And so it's really exciting time. Do you know Alistair Shepherd cross by any chance?

Margaret Glover Campbell: 28:38

I do know Alice had

Joelly Goodson : 28:40

to have to give a shout out to her because she met his business while he was to Agile. Team it and he's married to one of my best friends. So shout out to Al's

Margaret Glover Campbell: 28:51

wife lemony. No, I don't know is but I know his partner at T met and agile so

Joelly Goodson : 28:56

Okay, yeah, well, and I that's everything I find is that the whole tech community is so small and they're all so supportive. I mean, back to Beretta a good lawyer again. I mean, they have that cruise right in Toronto. I did all their banners and everything for that cruise. And I remember when they ordered them, like, we need a big banner for a big boat. And but it was so nice to see all the tech companies on that cruise in Toronto with the mayor and everything. And there's that real community again, back to that sense of community. And there's be Calgary being representative in this world stage on this yacht cruise, not to rub it in that you weren't there anything.

Margaret Glover Campbell: 29:30

Oh, I know. I totally

Joelly Goodson : 29:32

had FOMO about oh, I know to go on. Kudos to them. It looks like such a great event. So absolutely. Yeah, no fun. Okay, so before we go, I do have one last question. We've been talking a lot about tech. So what advice would you give if you had some top three tips to give some young entrepreneur, some startup person what would you tell them based on all the experience that you've gone through?

Margaret Glover Campbell: 29:55

It's a great question. So I think the first thing and this is actually how happened to me twice or three times in the last week alone, where I've had new companies reach out to me and or reach out to people that they knew that knew me and asked me for some mentoring and advice. So I think that's the first thing, figure out who in your network can connect you to other people in the tech scene? Don't be afraid to ask for those introductions. Don't be afraid to say, hey, can we go for coffee or lunch? And really try and tap into what people who've been doing this for a while, and, you know, ask them those questions. So don't be afraid of that. Take advantage of the talent that we have in Calgary, because even though we're crazy busy, you know, I will make a half an hour available to go for a coffee. And I think anybody that I know, in the ecosystem will do the same thing. Right? And, and really be able to offer that advice. So that's the first thing. I think the second thing is, you know, going back to how the ecosystem has evolved, if you think about the fact that there's platform and thinner labs and rainforest and right there's there are all of these support organizations that are out there, that true Calgary economic development, right there, all these groups who are out there and wanting to help build up the ecosystem, right? We want Calgary to be known as this amazing place for people to come and live, you look at where we're at, on the livability scale, we talk everybody else in in Canada now. So being able to make that known worldwide, can't happen with us, you know, one small tech founder, but if you tap into all of those resources that are there to support, that's 100%, I would do that. Right? They they host events, you can make excellent connections through there, there's opportunities to go through accelerators, and all of that through all of those different groups. So that would be the second thing. And I think there was probably a third that I kind of rolled in there as well. Related to that right around, we are seeing a burgeoning number of accelerators and incubators, and start up and scale up support programs. So as a new entrepreneur, tap into those resources, because you're going to learn where you're working in your business alongside a bunch of other people in your cohort who are doing the same things struggling with the same things to get started. And so you're you're learning from these amazing entrepreneurs who've been there, done that in a very scheduled way, right? And, and so you can learn and take away all of those things that, you know, like, Brett might be one of the people that comes in and talks about what do you need to know from a legal perspective around incorporating your business, we might go in and talk about, okay, so don't go out and hire 20 people and blow your entire budget, look at what fractional support can do for you, and how that fits into your growth plans. So take advantage of those of those other programs that are out there. Because there's just so much knowledge that can be gained through that.

Joelly Goodson : 33:29

Wow, that's all great advice. And I'm gonna add one thing to that going full circle to the very beginning. I would say be tenacious because I love that you said that Bobby went and got turned down. How many times did you say like 300 or 170 170? Right? So tenacity pays off. And I love that because I think that is whether you're in business by yourself, or you're in sales. I think if you really are passionate and believe in what you're doing and what your mission is, and your purpose, it's going to happen just like it happened for you guys. So don't be lovely. I think that's a great way to end it. So thank you so much. It's been so nice to see you and talk with you. If people want to learn more about virtual gurus and about you, Margaret, what's the best way for them to connect with you.

Margaret Glover Campbell: 34:14

So our website is the virtual gurus.com All of our contact information is on there. And you can you can reach out to us and the email system on the website routes to the appropriate person that you want to speak to. And me you can find me on LinkedIn. At Margaret Glover Campbell, I don't believe there's any hyphens in my LinkedIn account. And on Twitter, I ramble all over the place on Twitter, though it's not strictly a business account, but that's at M underscore G underscore C.

Joelly Goodson : 34:48

Okay. And are you anywhere else you and Instagram or Tik Tok or any of those other ones? Is your son is he into Tik Tok or any that are not really.

Margaret Glover Campbell: 34:58

He loves watching Tik Tok. Yeah,

Joelly Goodson : 35:01

that's the same thing with my son. You know, that easy like watching but he doesn't he's not on there either. So that I know of. I think my kids might have some ghost accounts that they won't let me follow.

Margaret Glover Campbell: 35:11

absolutely does.

Joelly Goodson : 35:14

Oh, great. Well, again, thank you again. It was so nice to talk to you and I'm so excited for your business and can't wait to see where things go next.

Margaret Glover Campbell: 35:23

Awesome. Thanks, Julie. This has been such a fun conversation.

Joelly Goodson : 35:26

Okay, we'll talk soon. Okay, thanks. Bye. And there you have it. Thank you so much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed the conversation and maybe learned a few things to help you with your branding. This show is a work in progress. So please remember to rate and review on whatever platform you listen to podcasts. And if you'd like help creating brand awareness for your business, please reach out to me on any of the social platforms under you guessed it, Branding_Badass, I promise you I reply to all my messages. Branding Matters was produced, edited and hosted by Joelly Goodson - also me. So thank you again, and until next time, here's to all you badasses out there!