Branding Matters

Lana Van Brunt & Hayley Dineen - Believe in Your Brand

March 25, 2022 Branding Badass Episode 60
Branding Matters
Lana Van Brunt & Hayley Dineen - Believe in Your Brand
Show Notes Transcript

My guests today are Lana Van Brunt and Hayley Dineen  - the Founders of Sackville & Co. -  a design-focused, fashion-forward cannabis accessories brand based in NYC.  Known for their cannabis products that double as home decor, Lana and Hayley’s aim for Sackville is to elevate the cannabis experience, appealing to both the connoisseurs and the curious.

In addition to Sackville & Co., this dynamic duo are also the brains behind Sackville Studios - a multidisciplinary cannabis design and production studio created by women who “like to smoke weed”.  It’s also the first female-run studio to design and produce major brands for some of the world’s top cannabis brands.

I invited Lana and Hayley to be guests on my show to talk about their brand story. I wanted to discuss their passion for bringing cannabis to the forefront of the conversation. And I was curious to learn why they decided to buy the company back soon after they sold it in 2019.

💥IF YOU WANT HELP GETTING YOUR CLIENTS TO FALL IN LOVE WITH YOUR BRAND,  REACH OUT TO ME ON SOCIAL AT BRANDING_BADASS OR EMAIL ME AT JGOODSON@GENUMARK.COM

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LinkedIn - Joelly Goodson
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Joelly Goodson :

Hi I'm Joelly, your Branding Badass, and welcome to season two of Branding Matters. Today I have two guests, Lana Van Brunt and Hayley Dineen, the Founders of Sackville & Co - a design-focused, fashion forward cannabis accessories brand based in New York City. Known for their cannabis products that double as home decor, Lana and Haley's aim for Sackville is to elevate the cannabis experience appealing to both the connoisseurs and the curious. In addition to Sackville & Co, this dynamic duo are also the brains behind Sackville Studios, a multidisciplinary and cannabis design and production studio created by what they like to say "women who like to smoke weed". It's also the first female run studio to design and produce major brands for top global cannabis brands. I invited Lana and Haley to be guests on my show today to talk about their brand story, and what a story it is! I wanted to discuss their passion for bringing women's issues that are not normally discussed to the forefront of the conversation. And I was really curious to learn why they decided to buy the company back right after it was acquired a 2019. Ladies, I am so excited to have you here today. Welcome to Branding Matters.

Hayley:

Thank you for having me.

Lana:

I'm excited!

Joelly Goodson :

Oh, this is great! And I love the fact that we're in three different cities. So I'm in Calgary, Lana where are you?

Lana:

I'm in New York City. I'm in Brooklyn

Joelly Goodson :

Okay, and where are you Hayley?

Hayley:

I'm in Toronto

Joelly Goodson :

That's so great. This is fun. Okay, so I love love, love your brand. And I want to talk a lot about it and what you're doing. But before we get into it, I want to learn a bit about the two of you. So Hayley, why don't you tell me first of all, where are you from? And how do you know Lana?

Hayley:

Yeah, so I'm actually from Toronto, though I spent most of the time not living here. And so I recently moved back. We're in Toronto you from? I'm from downtown. I grew up like, if anyone knows Cabbage Town, it's like a very downtown neighborhood. I met Lana. It's so weird because time just feels like a weird space right now. But I guess it must have been three years ago, four years ago. Just before we started the brand. Actually, I met her through my husband because they had both been working on vice. I used to live in New York. So his whole thing.

Joelly Goodson :

Okay, where did you go to school? Did you go to school in Toronto?

Hayley:

No, I went to school in London, UK actually. So I lived in Europe or in London for seven years I went to Central Saint Martins, which is a world renowned design school. So I studied fashion design there, worked there for a little bit. I worked for the UN for a while running a international called the ethical fashion initiative, which was a program working with luxury designers, trying to help them create more sustainable lines. And then I moved back to Toronto and ended up working in streetwear. So I worked for October's very own, which is Drake's company as their design director, and then I've also worked for EWZ and I have met Oh, that's like, everyone in Toronto. It's like six degrees separation.

Joelly Goodson :

We're in London. Did you live?

Hayley:

I lived in Kentish town, which is north London. I also lived in East London and Homerton. I like moved around the time.

Joelly Goodson :

Okay. No, I lived in Richmond for a while. That's why I was asking. Yeah. Yeah. So what about you Lana, where are you from originally?

Lana:

So I'm actually from Calgary.

Joelly Goodson :

Oh, yeah. Too funny.

Lana:

I'm actually from a little like farm south of Calgary. And then I ended up moving. I started out in advertising and traditional, like, within agency spaces. And I did. I started I worked I don't know, even if they exist, I'm sorry. If they're listening, and they do exist, and they're thriving. But there's two companies one called Trigger and one called Karo. Just little agencies.

Joelly Goodson :

I worked at Karo! I worked a long time ago. I worked there. Okay, I'm going to show my age a little bit. I worked there in 1996 - 95 Oh, no, you weren't there then.

Lana:

Definitely

Joelly Goodson :

Chris Bedford & Michael Dangelmaier

Lana:

Yes. Yeah.

Joelly Goodson :

Gilrs we were meant to meet!

Unknown:

Yeah, so I started there. I ended up moving to Toronto. And then I started building out doing branding and marketing for like vice media kind of became a director in that environment. They moved me down to New York. And then I started a consulting business where I worked in branding for media companies and marketing for attention media and vice media while I was down there as well. That's amazing. So did you meet in New York?

Lana:

We met in Toronto. So he we both worked at VICE in Toronto. And then I ended up moving down to New York. And actually subsequently, her husband moved down to New York as well with me so we all kind of ended up, like we both moved our lives. Yeah.

joelly:

That's so great. Okay, so what inspired you to start your business together?

Hayley:

Yeah. So I think Lana and I both really saw the industry the same way. Like we were both cannabis consumers, we both loved cannabis. And we felt like it just had an aesthetic that just had not been reimagined, like, the way that cannabis products had been designed seem to only have one consumer in mind, which seems to be like a teenage boy, honest thing to do, by the way. Yeah. And it just didn't fit anything that we would have in our lives and feel, you know, good about. And the whole thing that we were trying to do is really, you know, change the stigma change the way that people approach cannabis. And one of the biggest problems for us is like, you don't want to hide it under your bed or under your couch or have this thing that you automatically feel shame about when you take it out. So we started really talking about what it would look like to redesign the whole cannabis consumption experience and what we thought we could bring to the space. And we had many wine chats about,

Joelly Goodson :

you mean cannabis chats

Hayley:

Ha yeah. And then it was born and it started, you know, we first designed one grinder, and we're like, Okay, this is really cool. Let's try it. Let's see if there's an audience for it. And then that really blew up. And because of that, we just started making more and more products and seeing like, okay, no one's done a really cool pipe that you'd want to have that on your coffee table, or, or a tray or all these different things that really hadn't been reimagined for an audience that we sort of fit into.

Joelly Goodson :

Right. And so was this done prior to it becoming legal? Or they don't call it legal? They call it decriminalize, did this all happen? When that was going on before or after? Or walk me through? Like when did what timeline or was it was it just about to change?

Hayley:

We actually launched the business in 2018, cannabis, legalized recreationally in 2017. So it was just starting to happen as we were sort of testing the market. And obviously, I think anyone who is excited about cannabis has really seen this coming in North America, like the sort of wave of legalization, as well as around the world. So it was exciting for us, because we're also both very, very entrepreneurial people. And so we were like, Okay, this is an industry that is just like begging to be reimagined and hasn't had a real design touch put to it. So it was just an opportunity that we felt like we can pass up.

Joelly Goodson :

what made you guys decide, okay, let's do this together? Is it because you've been, were you sort of always brainstorming about ideas about going to business together, and this one came or?

Lana:

Yeah, 100%, we had had an opportunity to talk about a bunch of different things. And we've, as we know that we've kind of both created our own companies in the past. And we've basically, Hayley and I have a really unique set of skills, where I think that we neither of us own a space that the other does, like we complement each other really, really well. So when you're talking about building a brand, it's not like, you know, we both know how to really work social media or something. And then who are we going to get to make these products or do whatever, you know, Haley has like a massive, massive Rolodex of manufacturing and you know, supply chain and these pieces that a company needs. And my background was complementary to what kind of that tangible logistics or design those pieces and how we can build that. So it was like, we just realized we didn't need anybody else. Like, we didn't have to be some a company that had to like, okay, but we'd have to hire a freelancer or designer or something. It was like, we can actually just do this ourselves. Like, let's let's do this.

Joelly Goodson :

That's amazing. And so, did your your husband supportive? Like when you told them you were doing this? Were they behind you? Or did you get some personal?

Hayley:

Yeah, everyone was so supportive. It's so funny, because obviously, the cannabis stigma has been changing so much over the years. And it continues to I mean, like, we always say, when we started the brand, like no one wanted to talk about like design for it accessories, like Vogue wasn't writing about it, it was fashionable thing to talk about. But it was starting to change. And now it's changed so much that everyone is just super excited to see where it can go. And, you know, what we're bringing to the space is so new and fresh that yeah, I'm not excited.

Lana:

I didn't I was living in that single life. I'm very, but my family, I think was still a case study of the change in the narrative and why these kinds of brands like brands like ours, who are willing to push an aesthetic forward that people can actually relate to and that they're going to set out on their coffee table and something that, you know, doesn't have a stigma attached to it. Because I think in the early days, I probably had to kind of prove a case study of success where people were willing to get behind versus like, oh, yeah, we see that is like of course that's a that's an incredible market and every company in the world is trying to get in like it's still. It's It's interesting how quickly the years change. Like it's, you know, from three years ago, it wasn't the narrative that we're talking about now, it four years ago, like it wasn't, it wasn't as casual as everyone's kind of speaking to it now, it was still a very insular industry. And outside of that, you kind of for my at least, there was still a lot of stigma to it. And I think that that's like 100% gone in terms of like people understanding that you can build a business in it, and whether people have personal stigmas attached to it. I think we still have a bit of ways to go there.

Joelly Goodson :

Mm hmm. You're you're sort of taking it out of the head shops, and you're putting it into the more luxury space right where you're in that aesthetic. So can you tell me a little bit of some of the products that you do like, like actual products that you make, you mentioned Grindr? Now full disclosure. I like edibles. So is edibles cannabis? Is that considered cannabis? Okay, well, you're specifically just for pot like smoking. Is that correct? Or do you also do stuff for edibles?

Hayley:

Yeah, yeah, totally great question. Because I think it highlights also the fact that you know, cannabis is new to a lot of people. And there are so many different ways that you can consume cannabis. So there's a lot of questions out there. And I think people should feel really open about asking them because it's a new industry. And it's, it's a new space for people. So we have a range of products, we have lifestyle goods, which are products that maybe fit into your consumption ritual, maybe they don't we have, you know, room sprays that are really nice. We have, you know, sweatshirts and things like that. We also have consumption accessories, which would be like your grinder, your rolling paper, maybe your ashtray, things like that, that really fit into a smoking cannabis ritual. And then we've done some collaborations, for edibles. I mean, one of the things about us is that we are really obsessed with quality. So we only want to do things if we know it's something that we'd want in our homes, or we'd want to use. So we've done one collaboration with the amazing Chocolatier to do these, like, you know, CBD infused Oh, yeah, ours, were limited edition. And they were sort of fun for us to take a step in that direction. But yeah, there's so many interesting ways that people are starting to look at how cannabis can be consumed, and you know, for different audiences. Right?

Joelly Goodson :

Okay, and you were gonna say something Lana. What were you gonna say?

Lana:

we are really, really, really careful to make sure that what we're putting on the market speaks to the brand that we not only the brand that we are now but the brand that we you know, will continue to be as we grow. So when someone has a touchpoint with our brand, it is like every part of it should be phenomenal. And it should be something they feel really, really good about using buying, owning, keeping forever or kind of ingesting. And we haven't found that yet for other spaces or other products within CBD kind of consumption. So it's not ruled out. But like we're, we're picky. Yeah,

Joelly Goodson :

I love that. And you know what, I love that you said that about the different touch points, because that's a big thing in branding, too, is it's all about those touch points. So no matter what you're doing, and everything that you're putting out into the marketplace, whether it's on social media, or the products that you're selling, or the advertising, you're doing it always it has to be consistent with the brand that you're trying to get at. So I want to back up a little bit. There has been forever a stigma around cannabis. For anyone who doesn't know, can you share a bit about the history of why cannabis became illegal and why there was that stigma attached to it?

Hayley:

For sure. So when you look at the history of you know, cannabis legalization, a lot of the laws that came to regulate the cannabis industry or cannabis itself, were really based around racialized immigration laws. And so it was a way that people could criminalize a very certain marginalized group of people in the United States. And at that time, you know, the United States set the precedent for how things were looked across the world. So as soon as the US declared it, this horrible drug, it became that internationally without any real science behind those, that statement or those ideas. Yeah. So for years, you know, and then with the Reagan administration, putting the war on drugs into action. Cannabis was used to really police young black men. And so you have, you know, so many stories, horrific stories of families being torn apart, and people being imprisoned for tiny, tiny drug infractions based on their cannabis consumption. And, unfortunately, even though so many states are legal today, you still have people being, you know, in prison for tiny, tiny, nonviolent drug infractions. And that same consumption was never ever policed in, you know, white communities or privileged communities. So it's a real reckoning of society has to come to to recognize what that history is, and how important it is that as we move into legalization, all of those histories are taken into account. And people sort of recognize where that stigma came from. And how brainwashed a lot of us were from that war on drugs campaign that really tried to use scare tactics as a way to legitimize this policing of young black men across the United States.

Lana:

It's important that we that brands like we absolutely believe, you know, when we're thriving within the cannabis space, so these brands are kind of coming up that it's important to not only talk about it, but kind of make sure that people understand that the stigma, although it's become this permeated thing that's in our psyches, of like, you know, girls don't smoke or, you know, whatever the whole kind of that kind of trickle down of what what happens from from what Haley was mentioning, it's, it's important, because ultimately, Nothing ends up changing without the brands that are moving forward. You know, we can push forward an aesthetic to change stigma, but ultimately, we have to make sure that everyone understands, like, what's actually happening and who's making changes and kind of not be silent until that happens.

Joelly Goodson :

No, absolutely. And, you know, it's funny, because I listened to Seth Rogen, right, you know, and he's great. And he's, uh, he has his own lifestyle brand now, right? And I think it's called, like, postpile. Yeah. And you know, and I've heard him talk about it. And he sort of gave this history lesson, which I found really interesting, and how exactly what you just said, I mean, it was the marginalize people that were the one and they came from Latin America, and they were smoking it. So it was against the, you know, the politicians and they want it and that's why alcohol was sort of okay, after Prohibition, because there was money in it. And people were doing that the reality is more people die of cirrhosis of the liver and heart disease due to alcohol. I don't think I've ever heard of anybody dying from you know, cannabis. Right. Yeah. So yeah. So it's really topical. And I love what you're doing. What do you think about? I mean, I think I know you're onto this, but I'm curious to hear what you say about when you have people that will say, Yeah, but cannabis is the gateway drug. And then after that, it's something else. Haley, what do you think about that?

Hayley:

You know, the amazing thing that's happened since countries have started to legalize, you know, Canada, starting that wave is research. And the only way we're actually going to, you know, really change the needle on this conversation is having proper research done on the plant. Because as that's starting to happen, we're starting to see incredible things that can be done with different cannabinoids and ways that it interacts with the body. I mean, the cannabis plant has a very natural connection to the body, we have an endocannabinoid system, which is just our body producing the same cannabinoids. And that's why you have these effects from the plant. So I think that, unfortunately, everyone still has that mindset that's kind of been fed to them from the war on drugs, that they're unable to sort of see past, what can be possible with cannabis and really look at all of the possibilities that the plant can provide. So I think research is the way forward. And I'm really excited to see some more really thoughtful studies going on.

Lana:

And ultimately, marketing. Yeah, marketing is what moves us into that mindset. Like it's, it's the fabric that we all kind of we don't understand the depth that marketing has in the decision making that we that we all participate in, in society and the way that we view each other and all of that. So I think that it is also up to the brands that are putting money behind these things and government and all those pieces to be able to educate and market in the correct way that allows people to understand that there's a scope beyond what they've been able to experience before.

Joelly Goodson :

Yeah, absolutely. I love that. You said that. Well, thank you for sharing that. Okay, so I want to back up here for a second. I want to go back to 2019. You were acquired by a company called 48. North? Yes, yes. And then right around the time the pandemic hits about 2020 You decided to buy the company back. So first of all, can you tell us who 48 North is and more importantly, what inspired you to buy the company back?

Lana:

Yeah, so 48 North is a publicly traded company on the TSX V in Toronto. So they were a large player. They're actually really the only female runs. So their CEO is Alison Gordon. And they're based out of Canada. So we did an acquisition with them in 2019 at the end of 2019. So it was October and shortly after only five months after there was a change of control in the leadership in at 48. North and the new CEO did not see the vision that we had for Sakhalin co so basically immediately attempted to shut down of Sakhalin CO and a few other of the brands They acquired. So we was kind of began the fight of our life at the beginning of the pandemic. So this was actually March 9, that this began for us. And I think and I think full shut downs were and in way of March 13, at least here in New York, so it had like, deep pandemic time. So we actually begin to fight for the company back. So it took a few months, and we were able to buy the company back in the middle of the year of 2020. And we've been running it independently ever since.

Joelly Goodson :

So did they approach you or how did you get together with them?

Lana:

Yeah, yeah. So we had been looking for investment, it was something that we were kind of shopping around for. And we had met Alison through cannabis connections. And we began talking and it was something that we, it took us about, I want to say maybe eight months to negotiate the deal, and then five months to get the divider. But yeah, we just we were so strong on what we felt that the vision for Sakhalin code was. And it was purposeful it was it was something that we we were not willing to let it go by the wayside, or let anybody else kind of take the vision of what that brand was for us. So we fought really hard. And it was a difficult process. But we obviously you learn a lot, you learned a lot from any kind of adversity like that. And those was a million things going on with the pandemic, and this battle, the latest version of what it was,

Joelly Goodson :

that is crazy, talk about timing and everything, so that you learned a lot of things. So Haley, can you share a couple of things that you learned from that whole experience,

Hayley:

at the time you go into an acquisition, you assume everything is going to go great, you know, all you're seeing is, you know, the the future like a marriage. It's gonna be amazing. But you don't want to be a real stickler for, you know, some of those details of what would happen if it goes badly. And because you don't want to be focusing on that. However, it's those key terms that really ended up giving us the opportunity to get it back. So I think that was a huge learning in terms of just how we will ever go about something like that if we ever choose to in the future. But also, I think the biggest thing that happened for the company is that it pushed us to sort of create new revenue streams that we not, we wouldn't necessarily have done at the time. Because you know, we were just coming out of a big lawsuit, we needed to make sure that the company could run sustainably. And so we created Sacco studios, because we had so many people reaching out to us asking us if we could do design for them. And now that side of the business has just taken off. And it's been incredible. So it's funny how things end up shaking out, I think you just have to, you know, stick to the vision and see what's possible in what you're doing. And yeah, and ended up like, much better than we ever could have imagined. Really?

Joelly Goodson :

Wow, that's amazing. You know, a lot of my listeners are entrepreneurs and startups and small businesses. So what would be some advice that you would offer, especially if they're looking because I mean, you hear the story, somebody wants to start a company be successful in that have seen by the moat, right, that's sort of the ultimate goal. They buy you out for millions, whatever else. So what are some tips or some advice that you could offer anyone who might be listening based on your experience? Well,

Lana:

Haley mentioned that the contract piece is huge, just because I think we were in a position at the beginning to where, you know, we're the little guy, this is a public company, they have, you know, they have a huge board of directors and all these people that are coming at you in a legal team. And it's kind of like, you know, we were bullied into at points of like, Just sign it, just sign it, this is the deal. But we really, really have held strong to like these terms, we cannot we just we went into it, you know, maybe it's a cynical, maybe it's the cynical side of us or something. But like, what if this isn't everything we need it to be like we needed to and you know, it extended the contract, it put us in a really difficult financial position. And there's a lot of things that we should have given up on just to like, get the deal going. But we did it and we held strong to it. And that was something that was really important.

Joelly Goodson :

So get a good lawyer

Lana:

yes! get a good lawyer. I think it's also and maybe this is for women, this this is our perspective, this is two women who are building a company in an industry that's still very predominantly male. But it is, you know, it's easy to be intimidated, and to be put in a room where you're the underdog, you're trying to build something and they have something you want, they have money they have access or distribution or whatever these things are. And I think it's really easy to be intimidated. But I think we really learned that. First of all, no one really knows what they're doing. Everyone is trying to make it up as they go and it's just it's just a total like fool's errand to think that somebody knows better than then you do for your own brand. So I definitely think like sticking to what you know, you obviously have to pivot and be open to feedback and if something's not working, like be able to you know not not be married to the success Have a single aspect, but absolutely be married to the success of the vision, like the goal, the little pieces can change but the actual end goal and where you're gonna go, like we've never ever, ever wavered the day we met and the day that we built this, we still completely have the exact same end goal and you don't always know the steps that are going to take to get there but it Yeah, I think I think that don't be intimidated into thinking that you have to change into those things or someone knows knows better than you for your own company.

Joelly Goodson :

That's great advice. So let's get more into the branding aspect of this because we're on a bit of a journey here and this is you know, my wheelhouse is branding. So I want to talk about your merch

Lana:

for sure. I think it's so interesting because I there's so many different types of merch and merchandise in general, I think for a long time, like merch has gotten a bad name because a lot of people use like the lowest quality acts and then slap a logo on it. And they think that that's gonna build brand equity, which it's not unfortunately you know, backfires. it backfires hard, no one wants to be given trash, it feels awful, because then you're responsible for that, you know, especially in today's market to I mean, people are very, very aware of sustainability and how long a product should last like you should not be getting something and immediately thinking you have to get rid of it or throw it away or, you know, create more garbage. So for us, it's really, really important to ensure that anything that we're making is something that we know our audience is going to cherish and want and be excited to have for hopefully years, our ashtrays a really exciting one that we just released actually, that's a new product for us. And we did it in collaboration with the I'm going to say the new

Hayley:

Urban Justice Justice Center's sex workers project. So it's another it's another push to our effort to continue to create awareness and a narrative around this D stigmatization and sex work is another thing that has a massive amount of stigma and and anybody like this is this goes into how we participate with charities and how we kind of use our voice and our money to participate. We're very, very like hands on grassroots kind of participation. And this is something that the same thing like cannabis criminalization sex works, decriminalization hurts people, it impacts minorities, it leaves people behind in a system that just absolutely shouldn't. So it's something that we actually are donating. 100% of our profits of this. ashtray are more sex more weed ashtray to the sex workers project, which is really just, again, just a piece to say, ultimately, it's about equity. It's about everybody having an opportunity to have you know, healthcare and access to to social systems and things like that, whether or not they use cannabis, whether or not they're participating in sex work, or these things that have become criminalized for really, you know, reasons that don't have a place in today's society?

Joelly Goodson :

Yeah, so 100% of the proceeds. Wow, that's amazing.

Hayley:

Yeah. And we really do try to make sure that, you know, as we release products, we're making sure that there are certain products that we can ensure 100% goes to these efforts that we're really trying to make a change in. So we see the power of merchandise in that way where you can give someone

Joelly Goodson :

sorry, can you say that again? What are you saying? You see what the power of

Hayley:

merchandise? Yeah, perfect. Um, but you can really see it in the way that people get something physical from the the donation that they're giving. So they are giving to this cause, and they're helping to make that change. And they also get this beautiful, you know, in this case, this beautiful ashtray or this beautiful product that they'll keep, and they'll keep in their life. And it is not a throwaway piece. So that's really important to us. And I think one of the reasons why Sackville Studios has been so successful is that we are so adamant on that quality and ensuring that as we're helping other brands step into the cannabis space and communicate with their audience who a lot of the time are new to cannabis, we're giving them touch points that they can recognize that they feel comfortable around, you know, whether it's a hoodie, or I don't know, a mug, or something that they feel like they have this tangible touch point with. They can feel its quality, they can feel the elements of the brand within it. And I think that's a really important thing, as you're starting to build conversations with people who might not be super comfortable talking about cannabis.

Joelly Goodson :

Yeah, I love that. I totally agree with everything you want to add to that Lana?

Lana:

We do really believe that and I think you you would know this across every level of you know, branding and marketing. It's that like, no longer can you kind of create a brand in a boardroom like you have to have some level of authenticity and I think those touch points as we mentioned earlier, like every single aspect is It can't be a digital footprint, like, there was a point where maybe your TV ads and your, your website or whatever or even you post that where you could kind of have a cute fun looking, engaging Instagram. But if you if everything does isn't something that people can kind of like embody, like a brand is actually something that people want to support as it reflects to their lifestyle to them to what they're supporting. So it's not just like, hey, this is a cool brand, like, ultimately, it should look beautiful, it should work, whatever you're selling, and it should be something that, you know, looks cool and looks nice or whatever, whatever the goals of that are. But it also has to be something that they're they believe in. So whether it's it's like you can't have a brand that has no sustainability touch points that has no access to like supporting a greater good, like you have to be doing things. And I don't think there was a point where it'd be like, donate $1, you know, like you could click a box, donate $1 at your checkout, or whatever. But we we were building a win win society, like buy something beautiful that you love. And we will don't we will create equity and support for something that you can also get behind. That's kind of the goal of all of that. And we donate 5% of our profits to the tender foundation ongoing anyway. So these are kind of points where it's like, you don't have to do the work, buy something beautiful, it's going to be sustainable, it's going to be quality, you're going to believe in it and feel cool and like love wearing it or using it but also will do good with it. Like this is a it there's authenticity across the brand, which I think is like where merchandise becomes that active voice instead of it being like, as Haley said, like something that's a little bit more disposable.

Joelly Goodson :

Yeah, I love that I you know, I have conversation like that all the time with my clients. And it's about being consistent. And you know, you talk about being purpose driven. And I want to talk about that 5%. But, you know, if you say that your purpose driven brand, and you do things to help, then you need to back it up with everything that you do. And so swag is such a big part of it. And, you know, you talk about TV ads, I mean, if you get something like these T shirts have been covered, I mean, they last forever, and they'll stick around forever. So you're doing all that and people will wear and use whatever you're giving them with that sense of pride because they know what's behind it right. So they know that this ashtray you donate 100% proceeds to here or if they're getting that hoodie, and they know that 5% is going this, then they're feeling good about doing it. And so it's a lot, it's become so much more than just a hoodie or a mug or a t shirt. And what I love too, is that price point isn't as much an issue. You know, back in the day, I've been doing this a long time, believe it or not over 20 years. And you know, it was all about price point. And now it's a lot more than that. It's like okay, well, what's behind the curtain? And what is this company doing? You know, where did these mugs come from? Or how you know, as a child labor and what, and all that kind of stuff. So I love love that that you said that. So I didn't ask you this question I was thinking about when you were talking. But where does the name Sackville and CO come from?

Hayley:

When we were first starting in 2018. We were kind of like ideating, about how we wanted the brand to be. And it was really important to us to create a name that didn't have an association with cannabis already. Because a lot of people a would be kind of uncomfortable with this box showing up to their housing from you know, X weed company or this company,

Joelly Goodson :

bought leaf on the cover,

Hayley:

totally turn Polly's on it. And it was a big thing for us where we wanted people to see the name and not have this automatic connotation come into their brain. And so we chose this name that, you know, didn't have really anything behind it. It's a street in Toronto that we

Joelly Goodson :

I was gonna ask you so it's not a made up name. It's a street in Toronto.

Lana:

Yeah, well, okay, we liked and we thought you know, what, we can elevate this to mean something to our consumers in a way where they're not going to have this like, predetermined notion of it when they when they hear the name off the cuff. So, yeah, it CO was just, you know, we're really obsessed as you can probably tell with really, you know, working with our communities, we want people to really understand, you know, the art, the culture, the fashion, like where we're really in the whole community aspect.

Joelly Goodson :

That's great. Well, it's a great name and I love your logo. I'm I'm assuming you guys designed it, is that right?

Hayley:

We worked with an amazing designer on the website and branding and stuff so yeah.

Joelly Goodson :

Yeah, awesome. Wow. So interesting. Okay, so before we go, you had one one piece of advice to give an entrepreneur or a team or you know, you hear about business first hear about parties is breaking up all the time to I think I'll top my head a few people I know that didn't work out. What would you what would be one piece of advice that you would give? People are looking to go into business together?

Hayley:

It's tricky because I think a lot of people go into business with people they're already friends with because they think that that's something That ends the friendship. It often does. Yeah. And I think being really real. I mean, I think one of the great things about Lana and I is we're both really honest, even if it's uncomfortable, and so even before we sort of build a friendship, when we were just starting to build a company, we were like, Okay, this is me, this is how I feel, this is what I want. This is my goals at this. Do you want the same things? And that's as simple as I do want this to be a mom and pop shop? Do you want this to be a global domination run? Like, what are we doing here? And ensuring? Yeah, ensuring that you're actually on the same page with the goals of the company, because I think a lot of people get caught up in not actually having the same vision at the end of the day. And I think if you're clear on that, that's really helpful in knowing where you stand

Joelly Goodson :

otherwise, that's great advice. Do you want to add anything to that Lana?

Lana:

I think another thing that having a partnership, same, we were able to set off on the same page. And I think that it's in any relationship, it's really important to remove your ego when you're speaking to someone, and you're both figuring it out. Like it's incredible, the things that I can learn from Haley. And I think vice versa, where if we went into it thinking like, I know these things, or whatever, you know, we pivot every single day is like, thought I knew this, I don't like do you want to try or vice versa or something? Like we're really learning from each other as we go because this is like the Wild West and we and no one like I said, no one knows what they're doing and we absolutely are kind of making up as we go and let your guard down. Let you don't have to show up in a way that's like, Okay, I'm here because I'm the finance person or I'm the marketer, I'm the whatever and therefore, if there's something I don't know, or someone's coming at me that maybe I did it wrong or something it's like we're both kind of at the will of the task and it's like no ego let's learn this together. Let's rely on each of our knowledge and tap into elsewhere where we need to

Joelly Goodson :

that's great. I love what you said about leaving your ego at the door I think that is so so especially as you grow to so well guys, it's gone by so quickly. It's been so much fun. I can't wait how much we have in common. We worked at the same place that it was meant to be easy. Yeah, I know. So if you learn more about you, what's the best way for them to find you so you're on social media. So what's your Instagram you have great Instagram what's your Instagram account?

Hayley:

Our Instagram is Sackville dot and CO which is sack b i ll e dot A n d.co. And our website which you can see all of our products you can buy from the website is Sackville, which is SAIC KPI. Ll e.co.co.

Joelly Goodson :

Okay, great. Well, any parting words before we say goodbye?

Hayley:

Thank you so much.

Joelly Goodson :

Oh, wow. That's not what I was fishing for. But you're welcome. My pleasure was so fun. You guys are amazing. So I hope we're gonna be able to continue this and maybe get together in person. My brother was in New York. So maybe next time I'm there. Yeah.

Lana:

My whole family is still in Calgary. So

Joelly Goodson :

for sure. When you come to Calgary, we're gonna. Yeah. Alright guys. Well, thank you again. And we will definitely be in touch. All right. And there you have it. I hope you enjoyed the conversation and maybe learned a few things to help you with your branding. Most of all, I hope you had some fun. This show is a work in progress. So please remember to rate and review on whatever platform you listen to podcasts. And if you want to learn more about me and what I do to help my clients with their branding, feel free to reach out to me on any of the social channels under you guessed it, branding, bad branding matters was produced, edited and hosted by Joelly. Goodson awesome. So thanks again and until next time, here's to all you badass is out there.