How to Build Brand Advocates by Standing Up for What You Believe with Jordan Doucette

My guest today is Jordan Doucette, Partner & President of No Fixed Address; an award-winning independent ad agency. Jordan’s natural talent for communicating, storytelling and collaborating with others is at the heart of her success.

Jordan's work is not only groundbreaking and incredibly brave, but it has been recognized by most major advertising award shows, including Cannes, the One Show, the CLIOs and the CASSIES.

I invited Jordan to be a guest on my show to talk about brand building during a pandemic. I wanted to learn how brands go to market differently now vs before COVID. And I was curious to get her POV on what trends are here to stay.

Thanks for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a 5-star rating along with a brief review.

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Hey there, I'm Joelly - the Branding Badass. My badass superpower is helping you build a brand that matters. From branded merch to brand consulting, when you work with me, you get results!

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Transcript

Unknown: 0:10

Hi,

Joelly Goodson Lang: 0:11

I'm Joelly, your Branding Badass, and welcome to my new podcast. Branding matters. My guest today is Jordan Doucet partner and president of no fixed address an award winning independent ad agency. Jordan's natural talent for communicating storytelling and collaborating with others is at the heart of her success. Her work is not only groundbreaking and incredibly bring, but it has been recognized by most major advertising award shows including Cannes, the one show the kleos, and the Cassidy's. I invited Jordan to be guests on my show today to talk about brand building during a pandemic. I wanted to learn how a brand goes to market differently now than versus before COVID. And I was really curious to get her point of view on what trends are here to stay. Jordan, welcome to Branding Matters.

Jordan Doucette: 1:06

Thank you. Thanks for having me. Super fun. I'm excited to be here.

Joelly Goodson Lang: 1:09

Oh, I'msuper excited to have you here. This is so great. Well, we have a lot to cover. So let's talk about no fix address,

Unknown: 1:16

because I love your name, which is about not coming at anything, whether it's a client problem, the way that a team works, and output, a media solution, any of that with any kind of preconceived notion. So there's like a fluidity to the way that we work and the way that the agency works. And maybe I would describe it as like the unknown network network. So you know, we have all of the disciplines that a big network has, we have PR, we have digital, we have health, we have media, we now have this like awesome creative agency in New York. But instead of those things being sort of their own entities, we call it the grid. And we're very fluid across the grid. So a client might come to us with like a PR project. And they'll come into the PR door. And instead of like having a set solution to be like, hey, you have to buy all of these things. And all of these people were like, hey, what is it that your problem needs? And then we build a team around that. And if your problem only needs like a PR solution, cool, we'll do that. And then we find clients go like, Well, actually, maybe I need some advertising. Or maybe you can buy some media for us. And so it's just like very fluid way of working and making sure that clients don't feel like they have to come to us and like build around us, we build around them. You know, we believe in magic over margins. And so it's like, hey, let's go after great talent and let them do their thing, and not put them in these boxes. And so no fixed address kind of comes from that mentality was started by Dave Lafond and his wife, Rachel surge and his wife, Shannon. And it was just the four of them four years ago, which is amazing. We're 180 people across a whole bunch of offices now, which is an amazing amount of growth in a in a very little amount of time. No kidding. Four years.

Joelly Goodson Lang: 2:59

That's amazing. Where were they before where they had another agency?

Jordan Doucette: 3:02

They all came from the network world like big jobs at different places, which I think is cool. I think it's really amazing that we have a lot of people who've had those experiences, though everyone has kind of come with their different backgrounds, but sort of shared ambition as to how we would redefine agencies, if we could start from scratch, which

Joelly Goodson Lang: 3:21

that happens a lot. I used to work in the advertising world I think I mentioned to many years ago, my past life. And there's always a lot of change over people tend to go from different agency. And then what happens a lot of times is it's never really quite what they want. So then they decide, you know what, screw this, we're going to go do our own thing and think that's when a lot of great creativity and a lot of great agencies come out of that. So well. Congratulations. That's amazing. Good for you. Okay, so I want to back up a little bit. You went to Queen's University in Kingston, Ontario. You're a little bit of a rival. I went to Western? I don't know if I told you. Oh, that's funny. Yeah. So it was always like queens against Western. And it's funny. I didn't realize that, that you studied sociology. And so did I actually did sociology and psychology, which is really interesting. So why did you decide sociology? And how did you go from sociology to advertising?

Unknown: 4:07

I wasn't smart enough to do anything else that like whole part of

Joelly Goodson Lang: 4:10

Oh, come on. sociology degree, like, do you remember doing statistics, like I hated statistics when I was

Unknown: 4:18

I hated all of it. So actually, it's a testament to like how little guidance you get when you're that young. So I guess I would have been 17 when I picked what university like, nobody really talked to me about like, what I want to be when I grow up, and what the sort of university part would give me. And so I got there. I just kind of picked queens because I'm like, well, it doesn't suck. That's funny.

Joelly Goodson Lang: 4:41

I picked Western because my brother went there, and I went to visit him and it was a total party school and I'm like, okay, I want to go here.

Unknown: 4:48

Right, like, it's not exactly, we're informed. And so the things that people will talk to you about are like the things that you know, the big jobs and this is why advertising I think has a major issue with diversity because it's not something that anyone talks to you about. When you're in high school, especially like I grew up in a small town I grew up Barrie, Ontario. Okay, and what are your parents do? My mom is a designer and my dad had his own company. So entrepreneur very cool furniture design

Joelly Goodson Lang: 5:13

or fashion

Jordan Doucette: 5:14

fashion design.

Joelly Goodson Lang: 5:15

Oh, I love it.

Jordan Doucette: 5:17

Yeah, so she's super creative. So again, but I was like, I don't know what I'm going to be. I don't even know what my skills are. So I went to Queens and I credit my friend Alyssa kerbel, who started I don't know if you know this store called mini NIOSH. It's a baby store. It's amazing. She was my roommate and every other week I swear to God, she'd come home and be like, Guys, I know what we're going to do when we grow up into like crazy ideas. And one time she came home and she was like, we're going to be copywriters. And I was like, I don't know what a copywriter is, but it sounds cool. Let's all apply right? Like that was like how little like I know.

Joelly Goodson Lang: 5:47

Ignorance is bliss, though because it gives you that courage because you don't know what the hell you're doing. You're like what the hell right? What the hell I'll do right if you knew now if he knew now he didn't know then how be different.

Unknown: 5:58

Yeah, so you're right. I, I was so naive. And I was like, whatever all apply. That sounds cool. Like Alyssa was cool. She must know what's up. And so she was like, Okay, well, we'll apply the PR and we'll apply to copywriting and I was like, I don't even know copywriting. So we did. And I remember getting like an interview was at Humber College. And one of the things they said in the interview is well, if you get into PR you have to wear pantyhose, so like dress up and I was like, I don't want to wear pantyhose. I'm like, well, I'll just go to copywriting school. It was like how I decided pantyhose or no pantyhose was my decision maker and ending up in the postgraduate program of copywriting is crazy. Yeah, like Who says that? Right? It seems so absurd. And then when I started at Humber, I remember like, all these people in my class were like, oh, like I love Saatchi and Saatchi. And I've already had an internship here there. And I was like, What are these people talking about? And so I really felt like, Oh, my God, what have I done? I don't know what this is. And then as I started to figure it out, I super loved it. And I realized Holy smokes, you can have a whole career being creative and solving problems. I'm so grateful that I ended up liking it. But it was not a planned path. And I find most people I mean, fell into it some weird way, which again, goes back to I think the bigger industry issue right now, which is there's not enough diversity because I think there's not enough planning for different kinds of people to hear about it at a time in their life where they can plan for this to be a goal because if you think about advertising, there's like a trillion kinds of jobs for all kinds of people. There's creative their strategy, there's media, their business leadership, like there's so many cool things. There's production. Most people if you ask them, they're like, Oh, I decided to do it because random and here I am.

Joelly Goodson Lang: 7:33

So what was your first job then in advertising? Do you remember? Yes,

Unknown: 7:36

I worked at Ambrose Carr Linton Carroll students always ask me did you decide hold out for like the dream job or like how did you approach it and in my thing was just get a job, the foot in the door, at any place that no foot in the door at all. And so I'm like, I'm going where they hire their interns. So that was my number one priority. I wrote car headlines. And I wrote one of those things that hang from the ceiling at like fast food restaurant. Yeah, I would write the headlines and I would write down Freightliner. Do you remember your first ad that you wrote? Yes, it was for an accurate car, and it said arrive fashionably late. I think that's what the line was.

Joelly Goodson Lang: 8:13

Oh, that's great. And that was your you came up with that?

Unknown: 8:16

Yeah, it was like in the newspaper. And I'm so proud. From there. I went to gray. And then it just sort of like leapt from there. And yeah,

Joelly Goodson Lang: 8:24

leap is a good word, because you really excelled. I mean, you ended up you're in Chicago with Leo Burnett for quite a few years. Correct. Can you tell us a bit about that? Because that's pretty impressive.

Unknown: 8:34

I was a kanjur. I don't know how many years ago. And one of the things that happens to you when you're a juror is like headhunters, me too. I think they just do that. Right? Like it's part of it. And I felt myself being really defensive or like slightly embarrassed about the work ahead of my book, because none of it was like big brands that you know, global people would recognize. So Ken is like a global show. The headhunters weren't from Canada. So a lot of the stuff I was like, Oh, it's Canadian brand, like it's meaningful. And so after that, I was like, You know what, like, I need a life adventure. Like I want to go in the states and like work at a big agency that has big brands that everybody knows and my daughter was snapped tool that you can't move them but not too little that it was was gonna be hard. And my husband's like, Hey, I'm super up for the adventure. Let's do it. And I started interviewing and I met Brittany Nolan, who was the CEO of Leo Chicago at the time, and I loved him and he's like, moved to Chicago. And so we did I love Chicago. I

Joelly Goodson Lang: 9:29

it's honestly it's one of my favorite series. I love it so much there. And you were there for how many years? Two and a half years, and then don't don't don't you decide to come back to Canada to NFA and your timing could not have been worse. Yeah.

Unknown: 9:47

Oh my god. Totally talk about that. It was matter. No, maybe like the most stressful period of time in my life. So I we had decided to feel actually more personal reasons than job related reasons. Like I loved my job. There. But my dad passed away, Oh, I'm sorry, to Chicago and then my mom was was in Toronto alone, my kid would have been going to high school and I'm like, hey, if we don't move back now, we'll never move or like mid High School, like, should we go home? And so we're like, yeah, maybe that's the right thing to do for like life. And so I think in January, I resigned January 2020. Yeah, like pre pandemic, and then I was gonna stick around for a couple of months. And then we're like, you know what, my kid will stay in Chicago and finish school. And maybe I'll just me like all of these like grand plans. And then it was like, hey, there's this weird virus. And I remember being at work one day, and they're like, everyone just needs to go home. We're like, shit, like, what are we going to do? Now? You know, trying to sell a house in a pandemic moving in a pandemic. And it was still, whenever I was like, we have no idea what it means. We're gonna lock down the borders. We're like, what does that mean? I remember calling the border crossing people. They were like, just come home. And we're like, okay, we just moved home. But it was super complicated and really weird and kind of scary. And quarantining when we got here, you know, also trying to like move stuff across the border. Anyways, it was crazy times. But once we landed, I was like, I feel like fate. Or like, maybe my dad was like, Hey, you know what you should go like, hurry up, go. So that like tornado following behind you in the scary movie, where we sort of had no idea what was about to happen to us. And we were just like, kind of one step ahead. I believe

Joelly Goodson Lang: 11:22

that actually, my dad passed away last 1999. And things happen that I do that I'm like, Okay, that was him. That was him guiding me and helping me. So I actually do believe that. But we can save that for another time. So you came back to Canada, back to Toronto, and then you are the president of new fix address, which is quite an amazing feat. So congratulations on that. So how has it been since you started? Because literally, you haven't even been into? You've been working from home since you started day one.

Unknown: 11:53

Yeah, totally. That job to me, is my bedroom. Like, Isn't that crazy? Yeah, it's so weird. You know, the funny thing is, they have such a strong culture, like on social and the way that they behave. And I'm, and I was like, quite close with with one of the founders since he started it. So I kind of felt like I knew the place, though. It's always funny when people bring up that like, actually, I've never been there because I don't feel that way. I just feel like I sort of knew it. And I knew the culture to some extent, I mean, obviously, not all the little like fun nuances. And maybe it's because it was so stressful getting here that I'd happy to be here. And the rest is like, Who cares?

Joelly Goodson Lang: 12:28

So how is the pandemic affected your business? And how, what are your clients? How has it affected them?

Unknown: 12:33

You know, I think the biggest thing might be kind of moving from the mentality of like, day to day instead of long term planning. And so it's like short term planning, making no assumptions, and making sure that we can like change our mind on a dime, everything from planning to shoot a commercial, we were like, who knows this might not be possible, or the idea that we have might not be possible. And we've encountered that, like, we've had shoots planned, everything was okay. And then they're like, you can't because of COVID. So I would say like backup plans upon backup plans with a lot of our clients, you kind of know what their year looks like, right? So it's like, we'll do a Christmas spot. And we'll do this. And we'll do that. It's kind of again, no assumptions, that those things are going to roll out the way that they always have. So we've just stayed nimble. Some of our clients have done brilliantly well through COVID sales being changes in their business that we couldn't get prior to that. And some of our clients have had a much harder time, I would say it's a it's a mixed bag, in terms of like, internally how we're doing business, I would say that we're like far more open, transparent and empathetic. Right. And I think we realize that like mental health is priority number one, and also recognizing that with any kind of trauma like this, I think people evaluate like their life goals, like what am I doing is what I'm doing worthy. And so we really try and like make sure that we, we make people feel like this job is worthy. People always say we're not curing cancer. So let's make sure that like, you know, we hired great people who work well together, that it's as fun as it can be, and not take it too seriously. And so, you know, I think we've had really good retention rates. We haven't had to have, you know, a lot of cuts, because we've just been managing it as best as we can,

Joelly Goodson Lang: 14:10

you know, you had mentioned about, you know, we're not curing cancer. It's funny, I remember in the day working where you would say, crisis, we're in a crisis. We're having crisis. We're crisis, right. And now with everything that's happened, it puts crisis into whole new category, right? I mean, I'm really cautious about not using that word when I'm working. Because is it really a crisis? Julie, really, because you don't orders late or something goes wrong with artwork or all those things that you know are going to happen on your job. It's like, is that really a crisis?

Jordan Doucette: 14:40

Right, totally. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I think it's good perspective, to be honest.

Joelly Goodson Lang: 14:46

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I think you'll do you get to, I get more like that to the things I used to panic about years ago. Now. It's like, Okay, well, I'll do the best I can. And I always try to come to the table with the solution, but the end of the day, it's like shit happens, right? Oh, okay, so well let's talk about your clients. One in particular is a Canadian center for Child Protection. You have a new campaign out called hashtag Twitter birthday plea. Amazing Congrats. And I think this is going to be another award winner. What is hashtag Twitter birthday, please. They are an amazing clients like I cannot even tell you. So it says tiny organizations in Winnipeg run by two women who are a force of nature truly incredible, like the work that they do and protecting our children is is beyond amazing. And so we feel great honor in being able to work with them. How do you take a topic that is so serious, and disturbing? And how do you build the branding campaign around it and try to create awareness, we started talking to the client about the fact that like, the big platforms that we use every single day, like that is where see Sam lives. And so you and I would be like, but I've never seen it. And it's like, right, but it's there. It's like right underneath the surface. And I think a lot of people go like no, that stuff lives on the deep, dark, horrific web. And it's like really awful people. And that's where it's shared. And it's like, that's just not the truth. So that's like one big piece that people don't talk about. It happens on Twitter, it happens on Facebook, like you name it. Now, our client has created a tool called arachnid that helps identify see Sam flags it and then removes it. Twitter does not use and has declined the use of arachnid. And so they are one of the biggest platforms that does little to prevent the spread of CSUMB. In fact, like they're so proud of like one tweet goes across the world in like seconds, or whatever it is that they say. And so we're like, Yeah, but that also includes this horrific material that if your kid has been victimized, they can't get the content off the internet, unless the platform does something about it and Twitter's position is it just doesn't violate our policies. And so kids, it's so horrific. It's so crazy. I when I saw that, I just couldn't believe it.

Unknown: 17:05

Right. And it's so hard to believe, which is again, also part of the problem. And so, because it's

Joelly Goodson Lang: 17:10

not like the cat, right, like they have they can, they can no problem.

Unknown: 17:14

They can, they can and there's a free tool that would help them and they say they're doing things about it. Obviously, it's not enough. So what ends up happening is these survivors try and find the content and take it down themselves. And so this Twitter birthday plea was like, you've got to help, you cannot let survivors be the only ones advocating for themselves. And one of the things that we feel very passionate about is like finding the right cultural moment to launch an idea. So instead of like trying to start a conversation that people aren't having, it's like, well, how do we join a conversation? And so the more research we did, we're like, hey, Twitter's going to turn 15, they're going to talk about their birthday. And it's like, well, we should basically show them the impact of their 15 years in business, basically, and what that has had on children, so we created that video that we would then launch on Twitter on their birthday. So it's like taking two very powerful things, mashing them together and sort of watching them explode. And it's scary in like, our clients are incredibly brave, right, like calling Twitter out. You know, it's hard to find all of the right facts. And so we had to work really, really hard to make sure that like what we were saying, obviously is very true. But then giving people the tool, which is what can I do, and it's like, share this video, because the more people who start understanding that it's happening, the more people can advocate for change. The other part of the problem is like there's no law that forces them to do anything. And so we've kind of like summarize it is it's, it's one of the world's biggest problems only, it's nobody's problem to solve. And so what ends up happening is the survivors try to solve them for themselves, or eventually they give up and commit suicide.

Joelly Goodson Lang: 18:48

Yeah, has it launched already?

Jordan Doucette: 18:50

Yeah. Launch. Okay. So and you launched on Twitter? Yeah. Which is really interesting. So were you worried at all about, I mean, talk about being brave, but were you worried at all about them coming up to you, or any sort of legal action or counter attack? Or like, what what's been the response has been? I mean, I assume there's been a ton of positive response, but there is there been any backlash from either Twitter or? Yeah, we will use your like, press go. And then yeah, yeah. Oh, I it's it was, you know, months and months and months of work. Like video in and of itself is like not a lot of work. But the like planning in the figuring out what we're going to do bad things happen. They simply said, No comment. Wow. And we suspected that they would just ride it out. Now. Again, what we tried to do is create a video that, you know, you watched it, and it's it's quite emotional. Oh, yeah. combining that with the conversation around their birthday. We knew that that the press would pick it up. And so, you know, we didn't need to put media behind it. We just let this thing travel because it was so unbelievable. The other interesting Ted That is we try to surround it with sort of more mass advertising. So wanted to buy some media in San Francisco wanted to do some cinema things and we got rejected. I was gonna say nobody would touch it, nobody would touch it, which again, just goes to say like, how can a giant platform like this be allowed to just do what they want, basically. And I always thought to myself, like, you know, don't worry your kid, like, if that happened to my kid, I would just assume I would call him on Twitter and be like, Hey, you got to take this down. And it doesn't work that way. And I think that that piece is so shocking. And so all we ended up doing was the video and launching it on Twitter and then watching it spread as quickly as was advertised it does. So

Joelly Goodson Lang: 20:39

well good for you, for your client for really being brave, like you said, and standing up for something that you believe in. And I think right now we're in a time my hero when I talk to a lot of people in marketing about brand purpose and really standing up for something that you believe in. And even though you might be knocked down or come up against adversity, if it's something that you're passionate and you believe in and you're trying to change the world and make it better place then kudos to all those companies and save your company. This episode of branding matters is brought to you buy gems for gems. gems for gems is a proactive charity focused on ending the cycle of domestic abuse. They do this by creating viable and sustainable path forward for survivors with a concentration on empowerment and economic recovery. gems for gems works hand in hand with the community to help survivors thrive. What can you do to help? Well, if you have any use jewelry lying around that you no longer wear, and let's be honest, we all have some of that you can donate it to their jewelry drive. If you have any spare time and you want to find a way to give back, this is a great opportunity, and you can join their ambassador program. I personally am a part of this ambassador program, because I'm all about empowering women. And this is a great opportunity to do just that. And then finally, if you'd like to contribute financially, you can become a donor to their incredible Scholarship Program. Whichever way you decide to help, just know that you are making a huge difference. And your contribution is meaningful and greatly appreciated. To learn more about gems for gems, you can visit their website at gems for gems.com. You can also find them on Facebook, under gems, for gems, and on Instagram, under gems for gems Canada, and you can always reach out to me on any social media platform under branding badass. And now back to our show. So let's talk about social media. How do you think social media is changing the way brands go to market these days, especially during COVID? Especially with everything else that's been happening the last two years?

Unknown: 22:45

Yes. You know what I'm saying? I feel very strongly maybe this leads into one of your other questions. But I think the brands that have done well through COVID, and before are those that have a strong understanding of what's their brand stands for, and I don't think it has to stand for something like big and lofty, like they're gonna, again, cure cancer. However, a strong point of view allows you to show up and behave in meaningful ways. And then if you really start to build that up, consumers have an expectation of how you will behave, you know, people have an expectation of how Rei will behave, the things that they would do and the things they wouldn't do. And so you I think saw in the beginning with COVID brands were like shit, we got to say something, I guess, like, we got to make a terrible montage video saying, you know, we're here to support you. And the ones who were doing it well, I think had a clear sense of like, who they are and how they behave in the world, and then have the ability go great. So like, what would we say about COVID and I think the brands who don't have a strong point of view, or sort of last brands who are meaningful and have a point of view, like are doing super well, and they're fun, and I always say like, then it's kind of in the consumers hands, right? Like you build up an expectation of how a brand behaves like Burger King, right, like picking a fight with McDonald's being very provocative, like you know, and then consumers like start to expect that and so if they do something that doesn't align to that, they'll get called out for it. And so it's just like really interesting thing that like the more successful you are the more of your brand lives in the in the hands of the consumers and then they will hold you accountable to making sure that you behave that way which I think is total brand success. And then I think often like we don't including marketers advertising people you name it I'm like, why do we sometimes treat brands like me going back to your very first question like against humanity turning me and I was like, how many brands do you follow and like you just can't wait with that car company has to say to you like you just don't and just to get a more honest look at like what kind of content do people like actually want? What kind of utility are we giving to their life and utility could be like joy and fun and sparking inspiration or could be serious or could be actual utility. But I think the brands who think that you're going to follow whatever I'm not going to pick on anybody. Yeah, get boring content, like I don't know, I don't do that. Do you do that?

Joelly Goodson Lang: 25:02

No. So who do you think? are the ones that are succeeding? And what is it about them that are making them more successful?

Unknown: 25:07

One of the things that we have noticed in COVID is that there's been a shift in terms of like where people want to get their information. So I would say pre COVID people believe anything that an influencer told you right so you'd see people like, you know, health fads, things to eat things not to eat, like some influencer should could just say it and people would be like, Yes, I think COVID it's kind of like when shit gets real people were like, oh, man, like I want meaningful content and meaningful information. So we've seen a shift from influencer fun fad like content to more real content. So it's like a Yeah, and actually, how is it made? And like, what are you doing about the environment? And what are you doing for your, for your workers who work in your store? And is your packaging recyclable? And yeah, all of that, you

Joelly Goodson Lang: 25:50

know, you asked me earlier, I mean, I every time I see something firsthand, I was like, look at this packaging, like, What a waste?

Unknown: 25:56

Yeah, yeah. Right. And so I think more and more the people are saying that. And so I think in social media, like you really can't rely on like shiny content, because people will call bullshit. And again, like, the whole platform is for people to talk about it. And so you have to be incredibly careful, like how you go out in the world and what you're saying what you're not saying, because people will call you on it?

Joelly Goodson Lang: 26:17

Do you think a brand can survive and not be on social media?

Unknown: 26:21

I guess, I guess it depends defines how like social media in what way like I think all brands need to be all brands need to be experienced. And that's not it's not the same as experiential, I think, how are you going to create experiences around your brand for your consumers? And I think like social does app I like content creation, or some kind of utility or brand voice, right? Like Wendy's has such a like a funny brand voice that like you follow it, because you're like, that's enjoyable, like that feels like entertainment.

Joelly Goodson Lang: 26:48

So what do you think about Gary Vee, we'll just throw out a really popular social media person who is all over I think every social media platform?

Unknown: 26:57

Well, you know, what I like about him is like he brilliantly combines ideas for his clients with like moments and culture. That's what he's so good at. And I think a lot of that lives in social. So what we're finding is like when we've done activations like for craft, you know, we usually create like a little video, but people don't even really engage in that they engage in the like, social conversation and like getting your idea in a magazine is more exciting than seeing a TV spot.

Joelly Goodson Lang: 27:24

Does anybody watch TV anymore? I mean, other than Netflix, people

Jordan Doucette: 27:28

still watch TV, do they? Yeah, I think about my kids. So you have teenagers? You mentioned? How old are your kids? She's 1313. So I have a 14 year old and a 17 year old. And I mean, they're on their iPads or their laptops. I I honestly don't think they watch TV. Everything is Netflix

Unknown: 27:45

or YouTube. Yeah, my daughter only watches YouTube. Yeah. So that's why I was just sort of asking. It's interesting. Yeah, yeah, no, I do think I think brands have to figure out how to create experiences or demonstrate their point of view, more than just like telling people in a TV ad or in a social post. I totally agree.

Joelly Goodson Lang: 28:01

What are the trends that you see sticking around? And what are the trends that you see are just passing trends?

Unknown: 28:07

I think the trend that will stick around or I hope sticks around is like feeling responsible to put content out in the world that has some utility does something for humanity. Honestly, it can be a laugh like Super Bowl funny you big commercials that are like entertaining. I'm like, I see that as utility and playing a role in the world. People like it, you know, all these brands who are doing things for the betterment of the environment, or inclusion, you see a lot of that stuff and can I'm like, I love that. So I think for me anyways, at the beginning of COVID when everyone's making those horrible ads, I was embarrassed for industry. What horrible ads like the COVID mishmash of we're here for you. Oh, yeah.

Joelly Goodson Lang: 28:50

We're all in this together. We're all in this together. You see, you'd see a celebrity on their yacht, drinking their champagne and going I feel you and we're all in this together. And we're getting

Unknown: 29:00

through this. So I feel like that like that kind of like oh my God, we should say something. So let's say something even though it's not meaningful, I feel like people are gonna get called out for that. And I think the stuff that like says something or has a point of view in the world or like does some good for people so I love Twitter birthday. I was like way to go man like that is a strong opinion to have that people can either get on the side of it or not. But it starts the conversation in an informed that's what I hope sticks that people work harder to be more meaningful, because I think we're all looking for more value out of everything. Right? Like I've been stuck at home and so to maybe what you said, I'm like more thoughtful about where I shop, I want my neighborhood to still have the stores and the restaurants that I love when I come back. I want the industry to stick around. I want more kinds of people to be in my industry. And so I'm just way more thoughtful about what the world looked like and what it should have looked like before this that we just haven't done a good job of it a real wake up call. Yeah, a real wake up call.

Joelly Goodson Lang: 29:57

Do you think all these advertising and all that Diversity that you're seeing, is that going to continue? Or do you think we're going to go back?

Unknown: 30:04

I think we can't go back. I agree and go back. Like we need diversity of thought. And we need to create ideas that are reflective of the world that is bigger than the people in the industry. And I really feel like the blessing of COVID is like, we're sitting on our couches, and we were forced to pay attention. Because it's not the first time it's happened, right, where the world is aghast at some horrific action that is incredibly racist, but then we just go on with our lives. But somehow, like sitting at home, you're like, Fuck, I'm embarrassed, I'm embarrassed for how the world is and how horrific it must be for people. And I think we are going to be held accountable to fixing the industry. And the sad thing is like, we got to go all the way back to the beginning, we have to go to places and recruit students where we've never gone before, we have to give people a shot, who don't have the same kind of book that we might expect. It's like, well, to change our expectations. The other thing is like, we have to stop saying, which we do in advertising so much, you know, will you fit our culture? It's like, No, no, no, like, what will you bring to our culture that will make us richer that we didn't know before? Because suddenly, when you're sitting in a room, and you're ideating, and somebody comes up with an idea that just comes from a totally different life experience? You're

Joelly Goodson Lang: 31:11

like, holy shit, well, I mean, I love talking to you. I feel like we could grab a glass of wine and sit and talk more. I know you have to go. So if people want to learn more about NFA, which stands for no fixed address, and more about you, what's the best way for them to connect with you? Are you on social media,

Unknown: 31:29

I'm on social media. The other thing I wanted to say, actually, in COVID, started this awesome program called no fix agency, which started as like an internal mentorship program just to help people navigate like, whatever we were calling it, the new world. And it is now grown to like a full on external platform. Again, there's a website called no fixed agency calm, and it gives anybody the opportunity to either be a mentor on our behalf, or come and talk to industry people. So all kinds of people have signed up. And you can go and find 15 minutes with somebody in strategy, Creative Media, like you name it, there's a whole bunch of people internal and external, like people have joined our initiative just as a way to support each other. So it's really just Oh, that sounds great. And you know what, I've met the coolest, most awesome people. We've hired a couple of people. We've gotten business through some new relationships we've built I don't know if you know, Erica m, she's

Joelly Goodson Lang: 32:19

course, Erica is my generation. When I was when I was younger, she was the DJ on muchmusic. What is she doing now? That's a name blast from the past. Yeah, she's

Unknown: 32:29

like a speaker. Women advocate all kinds of good stuff. So she was on the platform, oh, no, anybody wants to talk to anybody at no fixed age, address, go to no fixed agency, and you can book time with anyone that appeals to you. So that's just cool. I'm probably most active in terms of like work on LinkedIn, sharing all the stuff that we're doing. So that's a good place to find me or to our website. And if anyone ever has any questions, like you can find my email on their email. The one thing I do love and COVID is like just meeting meeting random people, because I think that's the thing I miss the very most is the accidental beautiful things that happen in our industry, when you're just sitting around. And those things have been taken from us. And I'm worried for creativity in the sense that we control all the inputs of our day. And so if you just like open your day up a little new people booking 15 minutes with you, and you don't know who they are, all of a sudden, you're like, that was interesting, you know,

Joelly Goodson Lang: 33:20

we never would have met and I'm so glad we did, right? Yeah, you are a random stranger. And I was a random stranger. And now, you know what I have to say that is the one thing I love, the best about doing these podcasts is you and I having a really great conversation about a topic we're both passionate about. I mean, I would do this if nobody was listening. It's just been such an amazing experience. And I'm so honored that you said yes. And that we were able to sit down and talk about this. So yeah, thank you.

Jordan Doucette: 33:46

No, thank you. I'm so appreciative of it.

Joelly Goodson Lang: 33:48

I really appreciate it. Well, good luck with everything. And I am going to check out. No fixed agency. Is that right? Yep. Yeah, no fix agency, because that sounds really cool. And hopefully we will get to meet in person one day next time. I'm in Toronto.

Jordan Doucette: 34:02

Yeah, that sounds awesome.

Joelly Goodson Lang: 34:04

Okay, great. We'll talk to you soon. Bye. Okay,

Jordan Doucette: 34:07

bye.

Joelly Goodson Lang: 34:13

And there you have it. I really hope you enjoyed the conversation and maybe learned a few things to help you with your branding. But most of all, I really hope you had some fun. This show is a work in progress. So please make sure to rate and review on whatever platform you listen to. And if you want to learn more about the branding badass, that's me. You can find me on social media under you know it, branding badass. Thanks again. And until next time, here's to all you badasses out there.